General AFV Thread

[DrPlop]

And the laser warning symbol at the RCWS in turned on its head. Dammed details.

[LoooSeR]

Quote

   Chechnya will host military trials of the Arlan 4x4 armored car, which is essentially a Marodeur armored car manufactured by the South African Paramount Group assembled at the Kazakhstan Paramount Engineering (KPE).

   If military tests give a positive result, then these armored vehicles will be purchased for the Chechen security forces.

 

Spoiler

 

   Not_bad.jpg

 

 

[Atokara]

On 5/30/2020 at 1:37 AM, SH_MM said:

 

From the ballistic tests of the Type 90 tank. Claimed to the hte impact of an APFSDS round, but honestly it seems rather like damage caused by a  HEAT round (tiny hole, no fin marks, etc...).

Fin marks really only ever happen on thinner armor as well as softer metal such as cast steel. There is a reason why you only see fin marks being left on T-72s and M60 series tanks. It is also very likely that the Type 90 uses HHA on the outer layers meaning that the fins would just snap off when contacting the surface. That's just a guess though and from what I remember there were multiple shots from both HEAT and APFSDS, so we could just be seeing only the first shot of the test.

[SH_MM]

5 hours ago, Atokara said:

Fin marks really only ever happen on thinner armor as well as softer metal such as cast steel. There is a reason why you only see fin marks being left on T-72s and M60 series tanks.

 

This is not true.

Spoiler

 

 

5 hours ago, Atokara said:

It is also very likely that the Type 90 uses HHA on the outer layers meaning that the fins would just snap off when contacting the surface

 

They would not snap off without leaving any sort of damage or trace material. The Type 90's most outer layer is fabric/plastic covering the armor module (torn apart in the photograph). Assuming that the plate behind that is thicker than the outer steel plates found on other tanks is questionable.

 

Also the small diameter of the hole cannot be explained with APFSDS ammo.

[Beer]

Video from a media day in Tatra (Trucks and Defence). You can see some details from Titus and Pandur II production (and various special trucks) plus a media drive with Patriot II MRAP over part of the testing polygon (only "clean" part). Both Titus and Patriot II use typical Tatra tube chassis with independent suspension. 

 

One particularly interesting thing is what they mention about Titus. The Czech variants which are mostly various command and communication vehicles will be equiped with automatic position levelling system (I don't know how it shall be properly called in English, it means that when the vehisle stops the commander or driver can make it stand level in both axes by pressing a button).  

[LoooSeR]

   Thai army VT-4 and Oplot BM/T

[Eliz]

Finally after ten years of its design georgian army received Didgori 4x4

 https://thedeaddistrict.blogspot.com/2020/10/didgori-apc-and-didgori-medevac-for.html

 

 

[Clan_Ghost_Bear]

New North Korean tank, from their parade.

[SH_MM]

 

 

[Scolopax]

Some strangely American-like designs there. The tank appears like the offspring of some scandalous encounter between an Abrams and a T-14.

[Beer]

But it looks like the outer "Abramsish" turret panels are just made of thin sheets of steel - see the cutouts for smoke dispensers and APS (real?). The turret itself looks like a simple box inside them. 

[Ainen]

9 minutes ago, Beer said:

APS (real?).

At least the intention seems to be real(possibly mock-up). 

4 Radar panels are readily apparent, and there is something what can be interpreted as UV optics on the rear set of antennas.

But... are there 3 or 4 crew members? Optics just don't match 3(strange periscope to the right of the forward sight) 

[LoooSeR]

Also that side ATGM launcher.

[Eliz]

Smaller road wheels and different tracks?! 

Now its 7 

[LoooSeR]

   New NK armored car. 5 doors, appears to be not too much into this whole "MRAP" and mine-resistance thing.

 

Spoiler

 

 

   MGS, kek. Not sure about gun, but it looks to be umm.. mid-engined? 2 crewmembers in the front doesn't leave much space for engine.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

   New tank

   Muzzle refer. system, probably smoke grenades sticking out of turret edges with what is possibly a mock up of a radar (so it could represent soft-kill APS similar to K2's, where radar actives smoke grenade launchers). Also it looks like gunner was possibly moved to the right of the gun, at least what appears to be a gunner sight is on the right. Not sure about 2nd sight (a big box closer to a hatch). New ATGM launcher that now is retractable.

 

Spoiler

   Camera-looking sight from this side of the tank is better visible. On turret sides you can also see more of grenade launchers with radar-box and possibly laser sensor moved to turret sides. Note how thick roof armor looks on this vehicle. Or at least i hope this is turret roof and not just roof extension to make shit fit inside.

 

   Armata-looking angle.

 

[Ainen]

48 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

   Muzzle refer. system, probably smoke grenades sticking out of turret edges with what is possibly a mock up of a radar (so it could represent soft-kill APS similar to K2's, where radar actives smoke grenade launchers). Also it looks like gunner was possibly moved to the right of the gun, at least what appears to be a gunner sight is on the right. Not sure about 2nd sight (a big box closer to a hatch). New ATGM launcher that now is retractable.

 

1, elefant in the room. This new tank apparently again spots 115mm smoothbore gun(long time no see, 2a20), instead of 125mm one on Song'un-915. New, large ATGMs(152mm?) are probably intended to compensate for the obvious weakness of this gun in AT role.

2, there are old smoke mortars on the turret bustle. New ones are much larger, and the way they're installed literally cries hard kill aps.

3, as far as I can tell - yes, gunner in front of the commander. Forward sight is gunner's(this is supported by periscope next to it), rear one is apparently for commander.

4, somewhat unusually for "eastern" school, but NK clearly sticks to 4-man crew. Gunner is moved to the right.

 

1st point forced me to check, if it is yet another thoroughly upgraded tank in Popkung-Ho series, but no. Literally everything apart from the gun is different and new.

 

[LoooSeR]

12 minutes ago, Ainen said:

1, elefant in the room. This new tank apparently again spots 115mm smoothbore gun(long time no see, 2a20), instead of 125mm one on Song'un-915. New, large ATGMs(152mm?) are probably intended to compensate for the obvious weakness of this gun in AT role.

2, there are old smoke mortars on the turret bustle. New ones are much larger, and the way they're installed literally cries hard kill aps.

3, as far as I can tell - yes, gunner in front of the commander. Forward sight is gunner's(this is supported by periscope next to it), rear one is apparently for commander.

4, somewhat unusually for "eastern" school, but NK clearly sticks to 4-man crew. Gunner is moved to the right.

 

1st point forced me to check, if it is yet another thoroughly upgraded tank in Popkung-Ho series, but no. Literally everything apart from the gun is different and new.

 

1, yeah, i also feel like this is not 125 mm gun, although hard to measure for sure.

 

2. I'm pretty sure that what is shown on a tank can't be competent hard kill APS, those tubes stuck on turret "edges" are looking up, instead of how Shtandart, Afghanit, Drozd-1 and Drozd-2 had their launchers aimed - almost completely horizontally. Also, pay attention how "spread" aim of those tubes is, compared to Drozd-1 for example. 3 tubes cover what looks like 50^o arc, while on Drozd 2 tubes were covering just 20 degr. arc.

   

   So either: 

  A. This means that this "active protection system" launches counter-projectiles far above most likely trajectories of incoming projectiles and have big gaps in coverage

   B. To ofset gaps in coverage it intercepts them right next to a tank, where blast and fragments will have a real chance to mission kill vehicle by damaging sights and other external equipment (like ATGM launcher or missiles inside).

   Or C. - it ain't a hard kill APS and NK engineers are just aping their southern brothers.

 

3. So that big ass sight could be panoramic (in theory)? Oplot will approve proper sized panoramic buckets. 

 

4. Feels like inefficient design, cramping 4 dudes into this realively compact tank (at least looks so), it could managed better protection at least on saved weight if 4th guy was moved into a truck or APC behind, heh.

[SH_MM]

8 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

Muzzle refer. system, probably smoke grenades sticking out of turret edges with what is possibly a mock up of a radar (so it could represent soft-kill APS similar to K2's, where radar actives smoke grenade launchers). Also it looks like gunner was possibly moved to the right of the gun, at least what appears to be a gunner sight is on the right. Not sure about 2nd sight (a big box closer to a hatch). New ATGM launcher that now is retractable.

 

You forgot the biggest news: no active IR searchlights, so the tank has either thermal imagers or LLTV/image intensifiers.

 

I believe the "smoke grenades" sticking out at the turret are meant to be launchers for a hardkill APS. I don't think the comparison with Afghanit or Drozd is necessarily valid, as these systems use rocket-propelled countermeasures. North Korea could use actual HE-FRAG grenades launched at this trajectory in order to hit threats in the horizontal plane. Basically something more comparable to Arena than Drozd.

 

It likely isn't a very competent APS given the capabilities of the North Korean industry, but it seems more likely than sticking extra large smoke grenade launchers into the turret front and sides and then adding radar panels just for fun.

 

There is ERA at the turret roof, the hull sides and the upper glacis, but not on the turret. Weird.

[Ainen]

3 hours ago, SH_MM said:

There is ERA at the turret roof, the hull sides and the upper glacis, but not on the turret. Weird.

We don't know what they have under this thin sheet cover, though. 

[LoooSeR]

4 hours ago, SH_MM said:

 

You forgot the biggest news: no active IR searchlights, so the tank has either thermal imagers or LLTV/image intensifiers.

 

I believe the "smoke grenades" sticking out at the turret are meant to be launchers for a hardkill APS. I don't think the comparison with Afghanit or Drozd is necessarily valid, as these systems use rocket-propelled countermeasures. North Korea could use actual HE-FRAG grenades launched at this trajectory in order to hit threats in the horizontal plane. Basically something more comparable to Arena than Drozd.

 

It likely isn't a very competent APS given the capabilities of the North Korean industry, but it seems more likely than sticking extra large smoke grenade launchers into the turret front and sides and then adding radar panels just for fun.

 

There is ERA at the turret roof, the hull sides and the upper glacis, but not on the turret. Weird.

 

At this point i would expect Norks to have some form of thermal imaging sights, even Syrians are making crappy "Viper" thermal sights from Chinese parts for their tanks.

 

Drozd comparison is valid, because Drozd launches a big ass 107 mm caliber HE-frag warhead to intercept incoming shell and yet each shot is covering very narrow arc. I doubt that this launchers can throw something significantly bigger. Look at angle between tubes in each "pack" - it looks like they have nearly 35-40 degrees between each other and at 20 meters range away from the tank that placement of launchers will produce big gaps in APS coverage. And tubes on the back of the turret look like have similar size to frontal ones, they look like usjal smoke grenade launchers.

 

Thats why i think that what we see is just North Korean version of soft kill APS on K2s.

 

Maybe @N-L-M could give his impression on that question.

 

It is possible that what we see is pretty rough mock up of planned system. 

 

[Stimpy75]

Vietnamese T-62 

Spoiler

 

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Bdw1yIY.png[/img]

 

sry can anoyone see the pic? because i can't!

[David Moyes]

@Stimpy75

Use the "Insert image from URL" button in the bottom right of the post panel. 

[Stimpy75]

 

thx @David Moyes

but i couldn't get the spoiler done right

[LoooSeR]

   2 M-84AS1 prototypes (1st is on the background). Some changes visible - UFP ERA layout, commander's cupola, RCWS, different optics station visible behind gunner, driver cameras module moved closer to driver as well.

[Beer]