FaustianQ

Yeah, for the most part sales for desktop GPUs center around mid to high end, tapering off at low and halo tier (BellCurve.jpg). However OEMs tend to buy the low end stuff for office work, but even that is and will die out if Zen is a success - desktops will come standard with a competitive low tier GPU out of the box, reducing cost.

Due this it's unlikely there will be any new discrete GPU maker - even being generous, PowerVR would still get trounced by anything AMD or Nvidia could offer, and the new Iris Pro GPUs would too if put on a discrete PCB with GDDR5 (the Iris Pro 6200 can run BF3 @ 40fps on high, that's with only 128mb eDRAM, 2GB of GDDR5 would mean Iris Pro can run most games on high @ 60fps, even modern).

As ARM develops though and the market shifts away from dependence on x86, it's possible we will see new players crop up in the CPU/GPU space just because there are no restrictions on GPUs and ARM is relatively free (1 million is still free compared to Intel's "No, fuck off and die").

I was talking more about the chassis rather than the engine. I don't think an F-86 would pair well with a modern engine considering the chassis limitations.

TBF with strong IGP's in APU's of both flavours, there's little point in staying in the low end GPU market. When's the last time anyone released a new GPU?

By "anyone" who are you referring to? Apple, Qualcomm, AMD, Intel and Nvidia have all released new GPUs within the past year.

Fun fact: an empty C-17 has a higher T/W ratio than an empty F-86.

Isn't the F-86 considered one of the best jets designs ever?

The thing is I'm not entirely sure if there really will be a big enough market for multiple GPU makers within a few years in the first place.

 

AAA gaming is pretty much the main driver of GPU development, but that's also an industry beginning to show cracks. The resurgence of PC gaming for instance was in large part driven not by AAA titles like Call of Duty, but by indie and smaller developers who don't need the latest and greatest hardware to run. In the current ongoing Steam Sale for instance the only "AAA" title I'm really considering is Witcher 3; everything else is indies (e.g. Darkest Dungeon), old games (e.g. Commandos), or mid-range titles that are filling the niches ignored by AAA (e.g. Cities Skyline).

 

Which is why I still don't have a dedicated GPU - relying instead on the built-in GPU included with my AMD processor. It has crazy heating issues, but spending on a more heavy-duty heat sink to resolve this cost only $20 as opposed to spending $200 for a GPU that I would only really need for one game.

There is a theory that AMD is pivoting to do this - with 2-4GB HBM backed by DDR4, the thought is that APUs will replace low end and possibly mid tier GPUs, and AMD is hoping to get temps under control for the mobile market, while having a blatantly superior ARM+GPU design (K12) or even a power gated Zen SoC. Strong server chips will filter down to desktop, and focusing exclusively on highmid and better GPUs for supercomputing, and letting that filter down to desktop.

If Zen/K12 can be successes, and their GPU share exceeds that of Nvidia in "notdesktop" and isn't abysmal in desktop than in 2 years time we may instead ask "how can Nvidia survive?"- keeping in mind Nvidia is basically locked out of the CPU market and based on the Denver and Tegra SoCs they're shit compared to Samsung, Apple, Qualcomm and Intel. If AMD jumps on board, where the hell is Nvidia going to go?

Looking at the links in the article, it seems to be less about time traveling helium atoms, and more that reality is determined by observation. Causality isn't being voided here.

How much does a 970 normally sell for? WCCFtech is claiming an RRP for the 390 of 320 Vs 350 USD for a 970, and looking at this review with a stock clocked 970 Vs an overclocked 290 (which is running 10MHz short of the 390) the 290 is comfortably ahead. It looks like these cards slot in very neatly into the existing price:performance structure, which is not a good thing - I'd like to see keener pricing to blow nvidia out the water, which is what AMD needs to regain that market share.

Pricing actually seems to be worse, the R9 390 is supposed to be 349$, and theres plenty of 970s for 300-320$. Factor into the better perf/watt of the 970 and it's a nobrainer since it'll have wider system support. The 290 is competitive @ 250-270$, which the 390 would also have to be priced at.

No one is going to pick a 390 over a 970.

Colli, I think your mixing the gods of Liberal Industrialization and Commerce. Russia in the 90s experience American Commerce, and fucking hated it. Commerce will devour everything if it means producing currency, Industrialization requires only that you serve into death the great purpose of construction. Do not mistake both's undying hunger as coming from similar sources and serving similar means.

Like you said, Moloch is a shitty god, Vulcan is clearly superior.

Not sure I understand. Explain like you're working at the local ARC branch and have no one else to talk to about it.

EDIT: Also, link or die.

Title and assertion are hyperbolic, however the 300 series rebrand, it's poor performance, and bad price point indicate that unless AMD beats Pascal to the market with Arctic Islands, it's unlikely they'll recover enough in the GPU market to successfully release Zen in required volume.

The rather large fraction of their business that is in things such as the semi-custom business resulting in the console wins (who else will do decent x86, good graphics and cheap for you?) and the fact that their debt isn't due to mature for a while should get them another roll of the dice. If Fiji is technically good, they may very well have the fundamentals to put out a very good generation in what's likely to be one of the biggest generations of graphics cards in history.

Fiji does not look to be technically good - all reports so far on the 300 series have proven true, so it's likely leaked performance is also true. Without an aggressive price point, AMD will not be able to sell Fury. Bulldozer was new tech, that didn't mean it sold or was good.

When will their debt mature, and in what amounts?

3xx has been released? Rebadged cards is not a death knell - using the savings on R&D to put them at a more aggressive price point than nvidia's new designs should result in a very competitive range that sells well, maxwell has been more expensive than comparable AMD cards since the 750ti and if the 390X and 390 remain anywhere near as cheap as they were during the stock clearance then they ought to fly off the shelves. It's understandable with 14nm production scheduled so soon that they're cautious about releasing an entirely new architecture - the defining competition is next year when everyone gets to shrink their dies.

 

As for CPU's, pray for zen to close the gap. Intel integrating eDRAM on package with their latest chips is concerning. Everyone's known that integrated GPU's need more bandwidth than RAM can supply for ages, and by doing this before AMD intel has stolen a lead and is now faster in CPU and IGP. Hopefully AMD can integrate something similar for bristol ridge - maybe we could even dream of 1GB of HBM for in-package cache! I've heard that summit ridge will not have IGP's, which isn't what I'd like to see - it would mean that their APU's are still relying on excavator cores. Hopefully we see a zen based APU soon after the first zen CPU's, because chasing the top end with CPU-only zen products has very still competition from intel.

It is when market share is already so low that one could be easily pushed out of the market entirely - Savage, SiS and Voodoo all disappeared due to this. Price point is basically the concern though - they're not competitively priced. No one is going to pay nearly 400$ for an 8GB 290X or 350$ for a 290, not when that same performance can be had for so much cheaper and cooler. Nvidia is managing to supply gamers with what they need now, no one needs 8GB now. AMD could have released a really competitive 380X Tonga XT to beat the snot out of a 960/960ti/965 but that seems MIA, which is worse because ~230-270$ is where most cards are bought and AMD has a gigantic gap there.

Bristol Ridge and AM4 are supposed to come really soon. AMD is basically trying to push the supporting elements for Zen out as quick as possible, which is basically why I hope AMD has Arctic Islands complete and ready to ship in 6 months, "so why care about the 300 series?". It's possible AM4 will see the last generation of Construction cores from AMD, both APU and FX, as a fully mature product on 28nm, along with dual DDR3/4 boards, just so there is plenty of volume.

Also, 1GB of HBM on an AMD APU would crush any Iris Pro.

AMD's recently release of the 300 series cards indicates that AMD is a downward spiral that it's unlikely to recover from. Discuss the eventual 2016-17 issue of no effective competition even GPU side and the affect on technological progression.

The dystopia is real.

A picture of my rig and uh, "new" desk.

I said fuck it on the case, I'll just roll until 2016 and get a new rig then. I definitely getting that QNIX though, I'll need that 27".

Yeah was thinking about a 290 but then Tonga XT, ugh, E3 can't come quicker. I need to know if the 380X exists.

Also, I'm weird about aesthetic and only MSI or XFX coolers please me.

According to Steam stats, C2Qs are still terrifyingly common.

Also the AMD thread makes me want to buy an Athlon XP-M build. Throw in an HD 2600 XT I have lying around and see what it chokes on. Wonder if I could get a modern CLC on a Barton core.

I've decided that I'm not going to bother with changing cases, instead I'll mod the desk. So no blue LEDs etc for now but since I have the equipment and AM4/LGA1151 are still compatible with old CPU coolers etc, looks like I'll be set. DDR4 better drop in price or AM4/LGA1151 better be compatible with DDR3, because as is it's nuts for 8GB let alone 16GB.

In the mean time, I'm assembling a C2Q system and will see how it stacks up tot he FX8350 I have - will be pushing a Q9450 to 3.2Ghz, I might beat a Haswell i3!

I'm getting that QNIX monitor though because fuck this piddly 1600x900 I've had for 5 years, and I have no idea if the 760 will drive 1440p well.

First episode of The Pacific and there are 1903A3s at Guadalcanal. Welp. :|

You will never, ever get a film that actually gets the weapons right. This shouldn't even be a complaint, just the grim reality of it.

I like a harsh coarse ground mustard or wasabi. I agree on basically any pepper sauce, I absolutely loathe stuff that lacks any kind of heat.

Well, the issue is I moved to a new desk and holy shit I have way more space - except for my current setup, the HAF 932 I bought idiotically 4 years ago is way to big to fit properly. So contemplating moving to MicroATX, and I have on hand a DIYPC DIY-N8-W White SPCC MicroATX Mini Tower Computer Case. I also have some Red LEDs laying about, but was also thinking of getting a Corsair 350D and maybe either Blue or White LEDs. I don't have tons of money to throw away right now so anything above 100$ is definitely a no go.

The other theory is this is all dumb and I should just deal with it and sit on my hands till Zen.

BLACK-AND-RED BLACK-AND-RED

 

It's the colors of the Sith and my old high school, what's not to like?

I dislike red LEDs almost on principle because I just dislike red light as a rule, shit hurts my eyes and makes it near impossible to distinguish anything. Green, Purple, Blue and White are cool though.

Need help with moving my system to a new case. Would a white case with Blue LEDs be better than black with blue LEDs?

Hmm, well I use http://pcpartpicker.com/. Comes goon recommended, and while it'll hold your hand less, it basically has the internets entire database on available, buyable parts sans auction sites.

Also, these are helpful as well, they get updated as time goes on with new uarchs

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,3106-5.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

That's fair enough. Also I haven't looked at it more than to notice that yeah it's got a generally reasonable selection of stuff and a nice section to explain things, so Faustian might've noticed something I haven't.

 

I actually enjoy speccing the things out too.

Logical increments tends to put weird things on the same scale, as well as not scale them properly.

For instance, at the lower end of the scale they have the G3220 and the CX430. The G3220 actually has better single thread and per core performance than the latter suggested X4 Athlons, the Athlons are a waste of money. If you really need the threads you should really throw down the extra change for the FX 6300 or better yet any i3. CX series PSUs, especially lower end ones, are notoriously bad and no site should suggest a PSU that will potentially eat your investment.

Another interesting thing to note is the R9 280 being put on the same step as the GTX 960, and while it's true they are in a similar performance bracket, the 280 is actually better in price/perf by a margin as it'll actually use 4GB of memory while the 960 will struggle to do so (never buy a 4GB 960, it's almost scam levels of dumb). Yet LI doesn't tell you this at all.

I also dislike the lack of proper scaling - an FX8320 is not just a tier below an i5 anything, I'd slap at least the entirety of the Nehalem between them, as even an i5-2500K is going to beat up a Vishera, even a well binned one. An i3-4130 isn't just better than an X4 860K, it's far and away better as the X4 860K is worse than basically any Phenom II X4, which butted heads with high end C2Qs and early Core I series. This seems to be an awfully simple fix though, just add the percent increase from previous tier (after moving things around) that they've added to the GPUs to the CPUs.

I dislike the suggestion of Gigabyte boards, as stated above, and honestly ASrock is far and away the superior company (Yes, not only did I type that, the internet did as well. We're still recovering from shock).

Further, case suggestions make no fucking sense. Rosewill Challenger is an inferior case to the similarly priced Cooler Master N200 for instance, The Corsair 350, 450 and 550 are all some of the best price/perf cases yet not a word, and almost all cases seem to be for ATX boards, which is weird to say the least. Putting just bigger cases towards the end of their line ups makes no sense either, full towers are only useful going complete water or running shittons of hard drives for NAS or RAID or some shit. It honestly looks like towards the end of everything it's less how to build a good, enthusiast computer and more how to light money on fire. Here's a suggestion, spend it on hookers and blow and just get an R5 to stuff your X99 sli setup into.

No, it's not old (the most recent scandal was with Haswell ready boards), and I eschew logical increments as well, as it's not particularly helpful and in many cases is deceptive.

Either way, if you've had the board for longer than a year, you should be okay.

As a rule, Gigabyte loves to cut corners and there was a huge scandal about shitty power delivery for the CPU (things the board was rated to support it couldn't). I don't like companies willing to do that shit.

I bought a Samsung, so it's not 1:1, but for a drive cloner for that Crucial you can try this.

If you do not have a CD/DVD drive, use a bootable USB and make the necessary adjustments in BIOS.

Also,  OHGODAGIGABYTEBOARD

It's likely they're doing because it's pathological at this point..

Also, this may overturn other cases. Can't replace competency with corruption.