seppo
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Posts posted by seppo
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srsly?
Stop making sucht BS here.
source:
http://i.imgur.com/YsJkfaT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/d7hgJor.jpg
Just buy this book:
https://www.amazon.de/Kampfpanzer-heute-morgen-Konzepte-Technologien/dp/3613027933
it cost only 72 Euro and eacht page of this book is worth this price.
Thank you. Do you have a picture about the TTS, too?
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Just stop trolling and move on. We got better things to do.
You want pictures of me providing sources? Maybe read the replies in this topic next time...
You want pictures of you claiming the EGS used a hydropneumatic suspension? Here you go, fam:
(Adoption of the EGS suspension = torsion bar, which is incorret. But you have proven to have troubles with terminology already earlier.)
So, now you can go and try to learn something about the topic of this discussion before starting a topic on this forum with 0 accurate informations. People might get dumber because of all this missinformation you are spreading here.
You failed the reading comprehension test once again.
I didn't ask for pictures of you 'providing a source', i ask for a picture of the source.
'suspension' doesn't mean 'hydropneumatic suspension'. I mentioned 'suspension' because it's decoupled.
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The NGP is in no way, shape, or form the father of the Armata.
Do the Msta, BTR-T, BMPT etc etc suddenly not exist anymore? You know, those things made on the chassis of other Russian vehicles?
This is Sturgeons House, not Germanwank United.
Do you understand what the logical operator 'and' does?
Another proof that your dimwit brain can only handle one condition.
The vehicles you mentioned don't satisfy the remaining conditions.
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T-72A?
It lost its cheek. OMG stop the bully!
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That's either supposed to say "father". Or you're just a retard who doesn't know how English works.
And at this point it might be either.
It's a typo. "Father of the Armata" doesn't imply "Russians stole the unmanned turret concept from the West".
I already explained why, but your dimwit brain can't handle more than one condition.
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Speaking of having a terrible reading comprehension.
Holy shit dude.
Provide a quote.
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The whole "Russians stole the unmanned turret concept from the West" is nonsense.
Nobody made that claim afaik, so what's the point of this strawman?
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No, it is not. Modular armor existed a long time before the EGS was build, the decoupled running gear was developed by Krauss-Maffei since the 1970s. But hey, I guess it's hard to admitt one is wrong, when one does start a topic without having any sources on the matter.
Btw: The EGS used torsion bars, Puma has a hydropneumatic suspension.
Never claimed modular didn't exist before. Never claimed EGS used hydro shocks. It doesn't matter when KM started to develope the decoupled running gear. It's still an adaptation.
You have the reading comprehension of a six-year-old.
You didn't provide any sources either. Pics or it didn't happen.
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Wern't in practise the M4 sherman a universal chassis?
Medium tank (MBT)
Tank destroyer
SPAAG
APC
ARV
Bridge layer
CEV
Mine clearer
SPG
SPH
Apart from IFV, which was not invented at the time, it fills all the roles.
Does it have a unmanned turret?
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Well basically all of them are "father of the Armata in one way or another".
The whole unmanned turret; crew in hull thing isn't a new thing for the Russians, nor did they look at other countries for 'inspiration'. The whole "Russians stole the unmanned turret concept from the West" is nonsense.
The Armata is a concept for a family of AVs with an unmanned turret.
Where do you see a family of AVs? I don't see more than a MBT in the thread. WIth the NGP however I do.
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The vehicle seen on this photograph is the EGS (Experimentalwanne Gesamtschutz), an armor testbed unrelated to the NGP.
No NGP prototype was ever build.
The NGP project was never canceled, but it was cut back to just one version - the IFV variant, because the Marder required replacement more urgently than the Leopard 2. The program was renamed from NGP (new armored platform) to NeSPz (new infantry fighting vehicle) and then became after numerous changes in layout and requirements (and the project names Panther and Igel) the current Puma IFV.
You contradicted yourself twice in one post, because the Puma is an adaptation of the EGS(running gear + modular armour).
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No, this photograph shows the EGS and not the TTK. The EGS predates the NGP project. It is a testbed, not a prototype; the whole purpose of the EGS was to test if it is possible to create a tank with modular armor package, two men crew in the hull and mobility equal or better than the Leopard 2(A4). The conception of the Panzerkampfwagen 2000 project (from 1989!) already saw the use of a two men crew located in the hull. Just because the NGP had a two men crew, not all prototypes with a two men crew are related to it. The US Army also had tank prototypes with only two men crew, which are not related to the NGP.
US tank design from 1993 with two men crew and unmanned turret.
Have you noticed that the EGS has no turret and no gun? It doesn't have proper optics and no FCS sensors. It is not a prototype. No prototype of the NGP was ever build, because the concept phase was never finished. Four industry groups (Krauss-Maffei, Wegmann & Co., MaK Systemgesellschaft and a joint-venture of Henschel Wehrtechnik and KuKa Augsburg) were bidding, but none was chosen and no prototype was funded.
The Technologieträger Kette (TTK) was a testbed for the crew compartment conception (much like the VT2000), but not designed with armor. It had a front-mounted engine (unlike the EGS), a weight of much less than 30 tons (probably less than twenty - it had only four roadwheels per side). There is no photograph of the TTK, but a drawing showing the vehicle.
You can read all of that, and a lot more about the NGP and EGS in the book "Kampfpanzer heute und morgen: Konzepte - Systeme - Technologien" by Dipl.-Ing. Rolf Hilmes, who worked at the German military procurment agency (BWB - Bundesamt für Wehrtechnik und Beschaffung, now integrated into the BAAINBW) as "Referent für Panzertechnologie" and "wissenschaftlicher Direktor". Pages 87-92 contain a sub-chaper on the NGP, while the EGS is mentioned on the pages 180-182.
I don't see how a test bed can't be a prototype, but whatever.....
Also i never claimed that the EGS was a prototype.
If you post the drawing of the TTK, I will correct the thread.
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Farther of the Armata
Here are actual "fathers of armata".
If you wanted just to post about NGP we have several threads about German tanks.
Exactly where do you see the Armata concept in that thread?
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Your information is incorrect. The vehicle seen on this photograph is the EGS (Experimentalwanne Gesamtschutz), an armor testbed unrelated to the NGP. The EGS' development started in 1989, the first prototype was finished in 1993. In 1995/1996 the vehicle was trialed. Unlike your claims, the EGS used large roadwheels with an increased diameter of 810 mm! Weight ranged from 48 to 62 metric tons (depending on armor package), the hull length is 8.67 metres and the height is 2.71 metres. The width is 3.98 metres overall (3.5 metres width to the tracks).
No NGP prototype was ever build.
The photograph doesn't simply show the EGS, but the TTK(EGS + built in battle simulater) which was used as a testbed for the NGP. How is that not a NGP prototype?
The EGS is not unrelated to the NGP, because it's appurtenant to the realization of the two-crewmen concept.
Do you have a source on the dimensions and road wheel size?
You apparently have little to no clue what you are talking about. Please try to check facts before spreading incorrect informations.
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Title is misleading.
How?
Any details on the proposed armament, the vision devices, the intended crew setup or the armour package?
Armament:
Available:
120mm L44 + several auto loader designs
120mm L55 + several auto loader designs
NPzK-140 + at least one auto loader design
In development:
Type A. B and C ETC-Cannon
Type C would not have been ready before 2010 though.
Armor package:
The package on Leopard 2A5
Mexas
AWiSS APS <- I updated the thread
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Hello,
this is my first post. Please no bully. :3
Panzerkampfwagen 2000
In 1988 Germany developed a concept for a tank with two crew men. In order to test whether it's possible for only two crew men to operate a tank effectively, a Leopard 1 and a Leopard 2 were modified.
Field trials were held in 1990 and subsequently it was concluded to be a viable concept in 1992. The project was however canceled, because the downfall of the Soviet Union meant, that a new battle tank was no longer needed. Furthermore Israel stealing submarines and reunification meant that the budget was not sufficient either.
Neue Gepanzerte Plattform
In 1995 a concept for a whole family of armored vehicles(SPAAG, MBT, IFV) was developed, where the MBT would be manned by two man, just like the Panzerkampfwagen 2000. A prototype was build and tested in 1997. However a further budget cut lead to the cancellation in 1998.Wegmann desgin:
Turret + autoloader:
http://www.patent-de.com/pdf/DE19644524A1.pdf
Diehl developed an APS for this tank: AWiSS
EGS:
Hull length = 8,67m
Full width = 3,98m
Width between the tracks = 3,5m
Height = 2,71m
The intended combat weight for the complete tank was between 55t and 77t.
Can anyone calculate the the cross section areas and the protection levels for the front and the side, assuming mid-90s filler materials were used?
Thanks for your attention!
SH_MM tells us about NGP, which was sort of but not really like Armata
in Mechanized Warfare
Posted
SH_MM also stepped up with some really dumb contradictions, like saying that no ngp prototype was ever build, but ngp was never cancelled. He litterally implied no Puma was ever build. How dumb is that?