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StrelaCarbon

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  1. Tank You
  2. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon reacted to LoooSeR in 2016 Presidential Election Thread Archive   
    Dollary Clump for president #2016

  3. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon reacted to Scolopax in 2016 Presidential Election Thread Archive   
    Sorry
  4. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon reacted to cm_kruger in 2016 Presidential Election Thread Archive   
    Damaged Marco Rubio rushed to Koch Industries sentionaut repair facility after trench-coat wearing Jeb Bush makes threatening gestures and tells attendees that "after today, Carson won't be the only one here who knows what brains look like" before opening fire during debate. Secret Service says overwork, mocking Onion articles suspected as cause for recent "increasingly unhinged" behavior.
     
    When reached for comment, Donald Trump's campaign only stated that this was "yet another false flag against White America by the Obama administration."
  5. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon reacted to LostCosmonaut in 2016 Presidential Election Thread Archive   
    Inb4 change.org petition to restart Tiger production
  6. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon reacted to Collimatrix in BlackTailDefense Doesn't Know Shit About Tank Design   
    You've seen them before; poorly edited videos with an alternating loop of John Phillips Sousa and Weird Al, purporting to tell you about the various design mistakes armored fighting vehicle designers have made over the years:
     

     
    But does the maker of these videos one Blacktail Defense, know shit about AFV design himself?
     
    Haha, no, no he does not.
     
    Because of Sturgeon's House strict hate-speech enforcement laws, I am compelled to mention that Blacktail Defense is a furry.  So know that should you click any of the links to his material, you will need to decontaminate yourself per protocol DG-12-23A with bleach.
     
    Blacktail Defense is a military reformer, a storied and interesting political movement in the United States that has gone from being a force of some consequence to being a ragtag group of scoundrels.  I'm not going to say that they weren't idiots and scoundrels when they were of consequence, n.b.
     
    Military reformers are at they're strongest when they're on the attack.  They're a lot like creationists that way; when they can hurl invective at (mostly imaginary) weaknesses within whatever it is they hate, they can look like concerned citizens campaigning for the taxpayer's right to have their money spent wisely and the soldier's right to have the best practical equipment.
     
    But give a military reformer some lined paper and a slide rule and tell them to come up with a design, rather than tear down an existing one, and you will quickly see that these people have no idea what they're talking about.
     
    Ready?
     

     
    This is taken directly from Blacktail's furaffinity page.  Careful analysis shows that, no, this man has no idea what the everliving fuck he's talking about.
     
    Are you ready?  No, you're not, but let's go ahead anyway.
     
    "The Tigerwolf may look vaguely similar to contemporary MBTs, such as the ubiquitous M1-series Abrams, but is in fact wrapped around a lot of design features and technology that are comlpetely alien to today's tanks."
     
     
    Blacktail is going to prove to you that he's a better tank designer than all those idiots at Chrysler by designing a tank using technologies that didn't exist at the time of the design of the Abrams.
     
    "For starters the crew is quite large, with a Commander, Driver, Gunner, TWO loaders, and an Engineer. Many designers favor a smaller crew, usually adding an autoloader to eliminate the Loader from the crew (like in the Russian T-64 through 90, the French Leclerc, and the Chinese Type 85 through 99)."
     
     
    ... What?
     
    "However, there are a lot of problems with a smaller crew. First, autoloaders work at a painfully slow pace (14 seconds to reload in a T-72), which gives manual-loading tanks a huge rate-of-fire advantage (just 4 seconds in the M1A1 Abrams)."
     
     

     
    "There's no autoloader either, as that only slows the ROF, requires smaller, less powerful and versitile ammo to be used, adds another complex, delicate set of moving parts to break, and only serves to expand the guantlet  of things that can hurt you inside the vehicle.In fact, the Tigerwolf's main gun ammo is extremely large and heavy, and probably would break an autoloader --- it's would be an incredible feat of strength for a single Loader crewman to load in under 10 seconds."
     
     
    The Leclerc uses the same ammunition as the Abrams and Leopard 2.  As for his 145mm smoothbore howitzer ammunition breaking an autoloader, does he not know that the Pz 2000 SPG has an autoloader for its 155mm gun?  Of course he doesn't know that; Blacktail doesn't know what he's talking about.
     
    "The engineer is useful as well, because the large size of the Tigerwolf --- coupled with it's simple drivetrain (most modern tracked vehicles have a deceptively simple drivetrain) and small, flat engine (compred to a "Vee" or gas turbine) make for easy engine maintnance[sic] and repairs from inside the tank --- there's no need to abandon it if you lose a sparkplug while under small arms fire."
     
     
    Simple drivetrains, eh?


     
    Note that per the graphic, the Tigerwolf has a diesel wankel.  Does Blacktail not know that diesel engines don't have spark plugs?  Of course he doesn't know that; Blacktail doesn't know what he's talking about.

    (Diesel wankels don't exist.  Three companies have tried making them; Rolls Royce, John Deere and some Japanese company I CBA to look up.  None of the three ever got them to mass production.  I'm not sure what the problem was.)
     
    "As for the armor, instead of using a large amount of steel and other metals, most of the Tigerwolf's armor is made up of thick panels and blocks of woven fabric Carbon 60 and 70 --- which are genarically[sic] known as "Fullerine". [sic]
    Fullerine has ove 100 times the tensile strength of steel, it's 10's of times lighter, and theoretically could be manufactured quickly and inexpensively. Essentially, the Tigerwolf has a sort of "Super Kevlar" armor, but unlike current Kevlars (which are made of polimers[sic] or composites), fullerine does not have a molecular structure that distorts or melts under heat or pressure --- a single piece of this new type of armor can withstand MANY direct hits from rounds with tank-killing power, KE and CE alike."
     
     
    Ah yes, fullerenes; every hack futurist's favorite crutch.
     
    Fullerenes have many interesting and useful properties, but their large-scale bulk mechanical properties may not be that amazing.  Many materials have amazing strength at small scales, but disappointing strength at macro scales.  Sapphire whiskers are an example.
     
    Moreover, high tensile strength (which is what fullerenes have going for them), does not necessarily imply that a material will make good armor.  The properties that make materials effective against high-velocity threats are somewhat esoteric.  Aluminum alloys, for instance, have a better strength to weight ratio than does steel, and while several of them do protect better on a weight basis than steel against lower velocity threats like artillery fragments and small arms fire, suffer badly against high-velocity penetrators and HEAT threats due to sheer failure modes that only exist at those higher velocity ranges.
     
    Also, why the fuck does Blacktail think that "Kevlars" melt under pressure?  Aramids don't melt.
     
    "Even though it's much larger than an M1A1 Abrams, the Mk.75 Tigerwolf is over 30% lighter, and can swim over water obstacles, rather than slog though on the bottom. And because it floats, there are no depths that it cannot cross."
     
     
    This is how big a 40 tonne boat is.
     
    "Also important is it's low ground pressure, stemming from it's low 40-ton weight, super-wide tracks, low height, and enourmous horizontal size --- it has the ground pessure of a "Light Track" vehicle, like the M113 Gavin. This is important because almost half the world's surface is closed to heavy tracks (again, the M1A1 Abrams), due to thier height, ground pressure, and high centers of gravity.
    The Tigerwolf can directly cut across many areas that no existing or projected MBT will ever be able to --- not to mention traverse certain terrain features, such as bridges and paved roads, without damaging them."
     
     
    Is Blacktail under the impression that it's ground pressure that damages bridges?  Jesus, if that were true the last thing you'd want to get anywhere near a bridge is a car.
     
    "As the Tigerwolf has 40% more power and torque than the M1, and weighs 30% less, it is 40% faster and could probably accelerate as quickly as a Humvee. This would make contemporary tanks very hard-pressed to cut-off a Tigerwolf, and no current or projected tanks could ever hope to pursue a Tigerwolf.
    Other advantages offered by the powerpack include a small number of moving parts, extremely low vibration and ocillation (inherent to Wankel Rotaries; not in piston engines), low heat emissions (less than in 700+ degree piston engines, or 1500+ degrees in Gas Turbines), a very small, flat, light engine block, and stonger individual components than in any current or projected tank engine, and a 5-speed AT, to take advantage of the high engine output. "
     
     
    Uh huh...
     
    So this is a magical wank(el) engine that has equal SFC to a diesel, rather than falling between a diesel and a turbine as existing ones do.
     
    "Other advantages offered by the powerpack include a small number of moving parts, extremely low vibration and ocillation (inherent to Wankel Rotaries; not in piston engines), low heat emissions (less than in 700+ degree piston engines, or 1500+ degrees in Gas Turbines), a very small, flat, light engine block, and stonger individual components than in any current or projected tank engine, and a 5-speed AT, to take advantage of the high engine output."
     
     
    WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF TURBINE REJECTS HEAT AT 1,500 DEGREES?!  The highest turbine inlet temperature on record is 1,600C!
     
    Per Honeywell, AGT-1500's exhaust temperature is 500 C, but it's unclear if that is before or after it enters the recuperator.
     
    And if he's using bullshit Imperial units he's still wrong.
     
    If you don't know the difference between heat rejection temperature and turbine inlet temperature, you have no business discussing turbines.
     
    "All tanks require high firepower, and the Mk.75 Tigerwolf has plenty of it. The large size of the Tigerwolf's hull and turret enables a heavier-caliber howitzer to be used than on any tank currently in service --- a 145mm Smooth-Bore Howitzer. Because the German-designed M256 120mm smoothbore (M1A1, M1A2, Leopard 2, etc.) has a 40% larger punch than the British-designed M67 105mm Rifled-bore (the standard to which ALL other tank guns are judged --- used on too many tanks to list), the Tigerwolf's gun probaly has at least 20% more punch than the M256 --- enough to outrange any of today's tank guns, with enough penetration to destroy an M1A1 from well beyond it's maximum gun range."
     
     
    Any fictional Main Battle Wank needs to have a smitey, terrifying weapon... I'm not sure why Blacktail has saddled his design with a howitzer.
     
    Also, how many places on Earth are there where you can even see further than the engagement range of an M1's armament?
     
    "The Co-Axial MachineGun (COAX) fires 7x50mm rifle rounds, which combine the low cost and recoil of the 5.56x45mm NATO round, with the accuracy and penetration of the 7.62x51mm NATO round. 7mm rounds would also have a smaller casing daimeter than a 7.62mm round, which when coupled with significantly larger magazines and canisters, means the Tigerwolf totes one hell of a lot of MG ammo. As such, it is unlikely that a Tigerwolf will have to resupply MG ammo during a battle, and may even have thousands of rounds to spare --- if it is supporting friendly troops, the Tigerwolf may be able to spare a few thousand rounds for them."
     
     
    Someone doesn't know the difference between case head diameter and caliber.
     
    "A smooth ride and steady aim are achieved through hydropneumatic suspension and stabilization (versus the comparatively rougher torsion and hydraulics used in current and projected tanks) . The gun, turret, and hull each have thier own stabilization. While each of these are mechanically independant, they are balanced and co-ordinated via computer (which also feeds stability data to the gunnery computer, adjusting the GPS crosshairs in real time). This is unlike current tanks, whose ballistics comuters only react indirectly to the actual stability of the vehicle."
     
     
    I don't know what any of this means, except that Blacktail doesn't know how suspension and stabilization work.
     
     
    That's all I can stand.  I'm done.  Go read it if you want to, or not, whatever.
  7. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon reacted to Jeeps_Guns_Tanks in WoT v WT effort-thread   
    So this is what your garage looks like,  when you have that last place in battle garage mod, when you die in water...
     



  8. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon reacted to LostCosmonaut in WoT v WT effort-thread   
    Historical depression data by DaigensuiTM
  9. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon reacted to Jeeps_Guns_Tanks in WoT v WT effort-thread   
    So, I have this mod that makes the Garage the place your tank was at the end of the last battle.  I ended up in an interesting spot, and used another mod to minimize the garage interface and take screen shots. 














     
     
     
  10. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon got a reaction from LoooSeR in 2016 Presidential Election Thread Archive   
    Everyone here should vote for Trump because of his position on Anime:
     


     
  11. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon got a reaction from Priory_of_Sion in 2016 Presidential Election Thread Archive   
    Everyone here should vote for Trump because of his position on Anime:
     


     
  12. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon reacted to Walter_Sobchak in 2016 Presidential Election Thread Archive   
    Since Cruz was born in Canada can I start calling him a carpetbagger?
  13. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon got a reaction from Waffentrager in Japans Box Tank O-I   
    This was the line that had me snickering the most. I wish this article had been around when that South African wierdo was claiming WG had fabricated literally everything in the Japanese heavy line. If I recall correctly, he claimed the surviving track link was from actually from a Liebherr mobile crane, tinfoil-hat style.  
  14. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon reacted to Waffentrager in Japans Box Tank O-I   
    O-I
     
    The O-I (オイ車 Oi-sensha) was a super-heavy tank prototype designed by the Imperial Japanese Army during the Second Sino-Japanese War after the Battles of Nomonhan in 1939. The O-I is one of the Second World War’s more secretive tank projects, with documentation regarding the tank being kept private for over 75 years at Wakajishi Shrine, Fujinomiya. Surviving files have been purchased by FineMolds Inc., and publicly previewed in mid-2015. The multi-turreted 150-ton tank was designed for use on the Manchurian plains as a supportive pillbox for the Imperial Japanese against the Soviet Union. The project was disbanded four years after the initial development began, deemed unsatisfactory for continuation in 1943 after the lack of resource material for the prototype.
     

     
    History and development
     
     
    After 1939, the Imperial Japanese Army quickly came to realize that previous forms of mechanized warfare were proved inefficient after their defeat at Khalkhin Gol.
     
    Development of the super-heavy project was spearheaded by Colonel Hideo Iwakuro, the head of the Ministry of War of Japan (陸軍省 Rikugun-shō). Iwakuro opposed Japan’s advances towards the Soviet Union in 1939, and with the Japanese defeat, he decided to initiate a project to construct a heavily armored tank capable of withstanding large-caliber field cannons. Iwakuro assigned Colonel Murata of the 4th Technical Research Group to design and construct the super heavy tank in 1939. Colonel Murata noted Iwakuro’s words as described;
     
    「満州の大平原で移動トーチカとして使えるような巨大戦車を作ってほしい。極秘でだ。」
    “I want a huge tank built which can be used as a mobile pillbox in the wide open plains of Manchuria. Top secret.”
     
    「今の戦車の寸法を2倍に延ばして作れ。」
    “Make the dimensions twice that of today’s tanks.”
     
    The 4th Technical Research Group began designing the super-heavy vehicle throughout 1940, attempting to meet Colonel Iwakuro’s vague instructions on the ultimate goal of the project. By March 1941, the research group had finished initial tank design and was ready to begin construction. The following month, a group of pre-selected engineers were chosen to partake in the building of the super-heavy tank. One recorded engineer was Shigeo Otaka, who stated they were sent to the 4th Technical Research Group’s previous headquarters in Tokyo. There, they were guided through a barracks containing multiple small fitting rooms, where they were to conduct meetings and reports on the progress of construction of the super-heavy vehicle. Towards the end of the barracks facility was a fully-enclosed room devoid of windows, with soundproofed walls to prevent external personnel from overhearing discussions related to the project. Each officer present possessed a portion of the project’s blueprint, which, when assembled, projected the full design of the tank, labeled "Mi-To". The name originated from a collection of the Mitsubishi industry and the city, Tokyo; given to the vehicle to uphold secrecy of the tank’s project.
     
     

    Colonels Murata and Iwakuro 
     
    The chosen engineers voiced their concerns regarding the Mi-To’s design noting that previously, the largest-sized Japanese tank had been the prototype Type95 Heavy in 1934. Issues that had been noted with heavy tank experiments in the years preceding the Mi-To showing Japan’s generally unsuccessful testing on multi-turreted vehicles exceeding the weight of standard armored vehicles. However, with the threat of a second Russo-Japanese conflict becoming more apparent, the project continued despite the engineer’s doubts on the size and mobility of the vehicle.
     

    Four engineers who survived to record the dealing had with the project
    On April 14th 1941, the engineers began the construction of the Mi-To under secretive means. This entailed privately-made mechanical parts and equipment being shipped to the construction zone. Colonel Murata’s original concept was to complete the super-heavy tank three months after the initiation of Mi-To’s construction. This, ultimately, did not come into fruition; as technical issues on the project began to arise. Due to the limitation on material consumption by the government, the amount of parts that could be secretly shipped-in began to dwindle. By the first month of construction, essential construction resources had been depleted and the issues with the vehicle’s cooling system further caused delays. The construction of the Mi-To was postponed until January 1942, a delay of nine months.
     
    After the Mi-To’s construction was resumed, the hull was completed on February 8th 1942. The tank had reached near-completion and was being prepared for mobility testing. Mitsubishi built the four turrets for the tank in May of the same year. Initial assembly of the tank’s armament took place soon after the turret’s superstructures were completed. However; the project once again did not have the necessary resources needed for the few remaining parts required for the final assessment. Due to this, the primary turret was removed as it lacked a 35-millimeter-thick roof plate, which had not yet arrived. Thus, the project was put on standby, until further development could continue. The total weight of the vehicle at the time was 96 tons, due to the lack of remaining structural plates and absent 75mm bolted-on armor.
     

    O-I documents previewed by FineMolds
     
    The date on which the construction of the tank resumed is unknown, although active testing of the tank was scheduled for late 1943. The tank was unveiled to the Imperial Japanese Army’s highest command in 1943, and received a name change to O-I. This followed Japanese naming convention (O translating to Heavy, I for First, making it "First Heavy") that was standard. In his place was Lieutenant Colonel Nakano, Murata's assistant and colleague. Tomio Hara, head of the Sagamia Army Arsenal, was also present. Following the demonstration, senior officials within the IJA requested that field trials begin in August of the same year. The tank was disassembled at 2:00 AM one night in June of 1943 and sent to the Sagami Army Arsenal in Sagamihara, 51 kilometers from Tokyo. The vehicle arrived at the depot in June, and was reassembled and tested on the 1st of August.
    On the day of the trials, the O-I performed satisfactorily until the second hour of the tests. While maneuvering on off-road terrain, the tank sank into the ground by up to a meter; attempts at traversing the hull to extricate the vehicle proved fruitless, resulting in further sinking due to the vehicle’s suspension coils compressing. The tank was eventually towed out, and further testing was continued on concrete. However, the earlier damage to the suspension resulted in vehicle’s movement damaging the concrete, which in turn, further damaged the suspension bogies to the point that further testing could not continue. The trials were postponed, and later canceled the following day.
     
    Nevertheless, the trials conducted at the testing field were considered to be a success, and the vehicle was deemed ready for use in spite of its flaws. The engineers began disassembly of the tank on the 3rd of August due to resources being limited and the inability to maintain the tank in the field. Disassembly of the tank was completed on August 8th. Two days later, the engineers noted in a log that they were to inspect the parts and conduct research to fix the issues the O-I would face.
     
    The fate of the O-I after its field-trials which took place on the 1st of August is unclear. Russian reports claim the Japanese were in possession of a wooden O-I mock-up mounting a Daimler-Benz DB 601A engine in 1945, however other sources point to the scrapping of the remaining parts of the same year. The remains of the O-I reside at the Wakajishi Shrine, with a track link of the prototype still present.
     

    Remaining track link of the prototype O-I tank
     
    Design
     
    The O-I was conceived out of the necessity to produce an armored vehicle capable of withstanding modern weaponry being able to return fire with similar firepower. The O-I was designed to act as a mobile pillbox, supporting infantry and mechanized groups along the border  of the Soviet Union. The tank had a length of 10.1 meters, width of 4.8 meters, and a height of 3.6 meters. The dimensions of the vehicle closely matched those of the Panzer VIII Maus. The tank was envisioned to have a standard thickness of 150 millimeters front and rear, in order to protect against common anti-tank weapons of the time, yet it was constructed with armor 75 millimeters thick. However, an additional armor plate could be bolted on to bring the total thickness of the armor to 150 millimeters. The use of additional armor allowed for ease of construction and transportation, while also providing the tank with additional defense. Side armor on the hull superstructure was 70 millimeters thick. The additional armor plates were 35 millimeters thick,  but armor surrounding the suspension was only 35 millimeters thick. This made the tank’s theoretical armor on the side 75 millimeters.  There were eight wheel-supporting beams located on both sides of the suspension area which added an additional 40 millimeters of armor to specific locations on the side of the O-I. 40 ladder pieces were placed around the tank to provide crew with the ability to climb onto of the vehicle with ease.
     
    The two 47mm cannons used in the two frontal turrets were also modified to fit the armor layout of the tank. The weapon’s barrels were reinforced with steel to secure them to the tank, due to the standard gun not adequately fitting into the turret.
     

     
     
    The tank was both designed and built with two inner armor plates to divide the interior into three sections; walls with two doors each and an ultimate thickness of 20mm. This allowed the crew and modules to remain relatively safe while the structure was kept safe with supporting stands. These supports allowed the interior armor plates to stay stable and also prevented collapse. Inside the O-I were two Kawasaki V-12 engines, both located in the rear, parallel lengthwise, to give room for the rear turret operator and transmission. The transmission copied that of the Type97 Chi-Ha’s, but used larger parts and gears making the total weight heavier. The vehicle had a coil spring system, with eight 2 wheeled boggies, totaling 16 individual wheels.
     
     

     
     
    Data Sheet
     
     
     
    Sources   - O-I documentation, Finemolds - O-I project report notebook 1,2,3,4,5, and 6 (Finemolds) - JP Tank Perfect Guide - 日本の戦車 原乙未生 (Hara's book)   (Old sources) - 帝国陸軍陸戦兵器ガイド1872-1945 - 日本陸軍の火砲 野戦重砲 - 戦車と戦車戦 - 太平洋戦争秘録 日本・秘密兵器大全     ----------------------   ​Since the article Soukou and Daigensui wrote long ago is filled with inconsistencies and errors, decided to make something thats actually accurate to the reports. Wrote it on Google Docs initially, posted it to WT earlier. Will be present on Ritas blog and eventually Wikipedia. 
  15. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon reacted to D.E. Watters in RIP Stormin' Norman   
    In related news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
  16. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon reacted to LostCosmonaut in Tankograd T-62: Khruschev's bastard   
    I know it's not that impressive compared to the T-64, but for some reason the T-62 seems more well known. I mean, I knew about the T-62 (at least that it existed) since high school probably, but I didn't really find out about the T-64 until I started hanging out with this crowd a year or two ago. I guess it's because the T-62 got exported more, so Americans get to see news footage of it getting blown up in Operation Useless Dirt 2: 2Iraq2Furious, while the T-64 hung out in Europe the whole time.
  17. Tank You
  18. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon reacted to LostCosmonaut in 1959 SAC Target List Declassified   
    http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/nukevault/ebb538-Cold-War-Nuclear-Target-List-Declassified-First-Ever/
    Bad luck for Eastern Europe. Also, very telling to compare this to the Soviet's much poorer ability to hit CONUS in that period.
  19. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon reacted to Walter_Sobchak in The Star Wars Spoiler Thread SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS   
    Does anyone know why some random Stormtrooper just happened to be equipped with a giant lightsaber proof baton when they attacked the cantina place?
  20. Tank You
  21. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon reacted to cm_kruger in The Enema Thread (Moderator: Tied)   
  22. Tank You
  23. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon reacted to Priory_of_Sion in The Star Wars General Discussion Thread   
    Making the Trade Federation/Separatists more relatable and not just filler bad guys was a bigger mistake than the Jar Jar shitfest. No one cared when Count Dooku or the Separatists were killed. Darth Maul and General Grievous could have been used as better villains too, but after about 10 minutes of screen-time for both characters they are killed off without doing anything. 
  24. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon got a reaction from LoooSeR in The Enema Thread (Moderator: Tied)   
    Dunno if this has been posted before, but it's been making the rounds in many other corners of the internet: 
     


     
    I'd advise you not to watch any other videos from the same maker unless you have a strong stomach. 
     
    All joking aside, I am guilty of watching quite a bit of anime. Cowboy Bebop is probably the best one I've seen. I particularly liked it's kickass soundtrack. 
     


  25. Tank You
    StrelaCarbon reacted to Tied in I Learned Something Today   
    its probably called that because ive seen Hose's with more armor than that Spaghetti shitbox 
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