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Sturgeon

Your Gun Porn Thread

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Ahh, nice. Still in 7,65mm? Also, I may have a proper sling for that..  If it's not too dried out will try and throw it your way once I get moved.

One of those things you get when you buy a "box of gun stuff" at a yard sale.

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Yeah, 7.65 Argentine, and I'm always surprised at how accurately I can shoot with it. Dad bought a few hundred rounds of some surplus and some kind of target ammo (the ammo's still back at his place, so I need to pick it up). The latter produces no recoil whatsoever, which is off-putting. I took a bruise on the cheek when I tried the surplus out one day because I was so used to the latter stuff. The only complaint I have about the rifle is that I have vision problems, and the length of the rifle results in the rear aperture blurring more than my other rifles when I'm tired (I'm a cook, so that's about 90% of the time).

 

The sling would be nice, and I'd trust your word on a price. Funny enough, it had a surplus Garand sling on it for decades. My dad took it off when it started cracking and leaving stuff on the stock.

 

Also, you weren't really around when I posted these, so I'd be curious if you had info on them:

 

http://sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/14-the-small-arms-thread-part-2-the-legacy-lives-on/page-28

 

Between cleaning out grandpa's stuff, recent purchases, and the Mauser, I'm kind of swimming in old guns, half of which don't shoot (grandpa's stuff, dad took the working ones). I really have a desire to get something that doesn't shoot corrosive lately, though. Ballistol's been very convenient lately, but I'm tired of worrying about my guns every time I shoot them.

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Yeah, 7.65 Argentine, and I'm always surprised at how accurately I can shoot with it. Dad bought a few hundred rounds of some surplus and some kind of target ammo (the ammo's still back at his place, so I need to pick it up). The latter produces no recoil whatsoever, which is off-putting. I took a bruise on the cheek when I tried the surplus out one day because I was so used to the latter stuff. The only complaint I have about the rifle is that I have vision problems, and the length of the rifle results in the rear aperture blurring more than my other rifles when I'm tired (I'm a cook, so that's about 90% of the time).

 

The sling would be nice, and I'd trust your word on a price. Funny enough, it had a surplus Garand sling on it for decades. My dad took it off when it started cracking and leaving stuff on the stock.

 

Also, you weren't really around when I posted these, so I'd be curious if you had info on them:

 

http://sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/14-the-small-arms-thread-part-2-the-legacy-lives-on/page-28

 

Between cleaning out grandpa's stuff, recent purchases, and the Mauser, I'm kind of swimming in old guns, half of which don't shoot (grandpa's stuff, dad took the working ones). I really have a desire to get something that doesn't shoot corrosive lately, though. Ballistol's been a godsend, but I wish it had

 

 

The sling would be free.  Assuming it's not dust when I find it...

 

The breaktops are your classic low end pocket revolvers. Not terrible, probably safe to shoot, but not especially valuable outside of niche collector circles.

 

The Velo-Dog clone is probably a Spanish copy.  the "Browning" marking was a popular way of lending an air of "quality" to an otherwise cheap piece.  I'm going to bet it's in .25 ACP  or .32 ACP, instead of the original .22 VeloDog chambering.

 

 

As to cleaning, I'm still a huge fan of "soak it in solvent, scrub and blow, repeat as needed". If you can drop those pocketguns into a cheap ultrasound cleaner for a few minutes, I'm betting all kinds of crap will float out of them.

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The sling would be free.  Assuming it's not dust when I find it...

 

The breaktops are your classic low end pocket revolvers. Not terrible, probably safe to shoot, but not especially valuable outside of niche collector circles.

 

The Velo-Dog clone is probably a Spanish copy.  the "Browning" marking was a popular way of lending an air of "quality" to an otherwise cheap piece.  I'm going to bet it's in .25 ACP  or .32 ACP, instead of the original .22 VeloDog chambering.

 

 

As to cleaning, I'm still a huge fan of "soak it in solvent, scrub and blow, repeat as needed". If you can drop those pocketguns into a cheap ultrasound cleaner for a few minutes, I'm betting all kinds of crap will float out of them.

Yeah, I figured I had nothing special with the revolvers, and the F&W has a really weak firing pin. I doubt it would fire. Mostly just curious since I am absolutely clueless in anything handgun, and the Velo copy was just weird enough to raise my interest. I'd really like to be able to free that thing up to get a closer look at it.

 

e: The F&W likely wouldn't fire if I tried it double-action, but pulling back the hammer seems like it would work.

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7.65 Argentine/Belgian is an excellent round, akin to a 7.62 NATO before its time. It and the 7.5 French are two rounds that I feel should have gotten more attention, but then 7.62 NATO just came in and swept them all away.

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36n.jpg

My MAS 36/51 with grenade launching site deployed.  Also with the sight removed from the weapon.  The launcher has two set points, a 45 degree indirect and a direct set point.

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Handy! I figured it had something to do with aiming of the boomstick but didn't know it flipped up like that. My brother has a plain-jane Mas-36 from one of the trips to Ye Olde Big Five. The spike bayonet is made of awesome. Took us the longest time to find the safety on it though...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

I know there's no safety.

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The French safety is installed on each soldiers trigger finger.  

 

The reality is French rifles did not have safeties until 1945 when they were installed on the MAS 1944.  French theory - originating in the 1860s, was that a safety was just a mechanical device which could be set to the wrong setting or could mechanically fail when you needed it.  French soldiers instead maintained strict weapon discipline.  

 

Soldiers carried a weapon with a loaded magazine and no round up the spigot.  You only jacked a round in when you were ready to fire, and when the battle was over you went back to no ammo.

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Assuming you're not already typing a response but I always wondered why the French opted not to put a safety on the MAS (and Berthier). Were they just keeping the production simple or was this a conscious decision to keep command and control of troops loading their weapons in the hands of their officers. Or a different view on firearm safety?

 

Edit: Merci!

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My answer is before your comment, but the answer was a distrust of safeties.  Early mechanical safeties were unreliable.  The theory was that it was impossible to accidentally discharge a weapon that was never loaded.

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Makes sense to me and it jives with what I've read. I always like to get multiple sources on information. As for the MAS-36, I found it to be a pretty rugged and utilitarian gun. Being an American used to bolt action hunting rifles, I've never found it to be a particularly pleasing weapon to fire. On the other hand it doesn't strike me as a finicky rifle and no doubt it was good enough for the French post-World War 2 given their unique military situation during that time.

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It is not an elegant weapon, but it is the simplest bolt action weapon ever made.  Just for an example, 

 

1936-3.gif

1936-4.gif

I challenge you to find a simpler bolt design.  Compare it to the Mauser:

 

GEWEHR_98_22.png

And if you figured one in five soldiers break a firing pin when first learning to take the bolt apart, and another one in five will loose their mainsprings.  Or the Winchester:

 

disassembledbltpartsa.gif

 

Firing pin spring retainer is a real biddy to loose when you are cleaning the thing in the field.  And of course the Lee-Enfield whose rear locking lugs is so like the MAS (good for keeping mud out of the bore):

 

legend.jpg

Lots of small parts.

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Stop posting cool French rifles, please. I'm gonna be dumping a bit into a Garand soon, and I don't want to start having to crave more antique militiaria that I can't afford ammunition for.

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Another candidate for "simple bolt" would be the Arisakas.  Basically of the same nature as the MAS, except the cap is locked externally rather than internally, and it uses a Mauser type extractor.

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mas49-56-1.gif

 

Everyone else has a Garand - imagine how many women will come running to your side when you pull this bad boy out and line up a few grenades.

 

+1 on the Ariska Bolt, its only weakness is front locking lugs.

 

legend.jpg

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