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SH_MM

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  1. Tank You
    SH_MM got a reaction from Domus Acipenseris in Contemporary Western Tank Rumble!   
    Well, if you include TUSK as armor kit for the Abrams, then you also have to include the different Theatre Entry Standards (TES) armor kits (three versions at least) of the Challenger 2. The base armor however was most likely not upgraded.
     
    The Leclerc is not geometrically more efficient. It could have been, if it's armor layout wasn't designed so badly. The Leclerc trades a smaller frontal profile for a larger number of weakspots. It uses a bulge-type turret (no idea about the proper English term), because otherwise a low-profile turret would mean reduced gun depression (breech block hits the roof when firing). There is bulge/box on the Leclerc turret roof, which is about one feet tall and located in the centerline of the turret. It is connected to the interior of the tank, as it serves as space for the breech block to travel when the gun is depressed. With this bulge the diffence between the Leopard 2's and Leclerc's roof height is about 20 milimetres.
     

     
    The problem with this bulge is, that it is essentially un-armored (maybe 40-50 mm steel armor); otherwise the Leclerc wouldn't save any weight. While the bulge is hidden from direct head-on attacks, it is exposed when the tank is attacked from an angle. Given that modern APFSDS usually do not riccochet at impact angles larger than 10-15° and most RPGs are able to fuze at such an angle, the Leclerc has a very weakly armored section that can be hit from half to two-thirds of the frontal arc and will always be penetrated.
     

     
    The next issue is the result of the gunner's sight layout. While it is somewhat reminiscent of the Leopard 2's original gunner's sight placement for some people, it is actually designed differently. The Leopard 2's original sight layout has armor in front and behind the gunner's sight, the sight also doesn't extend to the bottom of the turret. On the Leclerc things are very different, the sight is placed in front of the armor and this reduces overall thickness. This problem has been reduced by installing another armor block in front of the guner's sight, but it doesn't cover the entire crew.
     

     
    The biggest issue of the Leclerc is however the gun shield. It's tiny, only 30 mm thick! Compared to that the Leopard 2 had a 420 mm gun shield already in 1979. The French engineers went with having pretty much the largest gun mantlet of all contemporary tanks, but decided to add the thinnest gun shield for protection. They decided to instead go for a thicker armor (steel) block at the gun trunnions.
     

     
    Still the protection of the gun mantlet seems to be sub-par compared to the Leopard 2 (420 mm armor block + 200-250 mm steel for the gun trunion mount on the original tank) and even upgraded Leopard 2 tanks. The Abrams has a comparable weak protected gun mantlet, but it has a much smaller surface. The Challenger 2 seems to have thicker armor at the gun, comparable to the Leopard 2.
     
    Also, the Leclerc has longer (not thicker) turret side armor compared to the Leopard 2 and Challenger 2, because the armor needs to protect the autoloader. On the other tanks, the thick armor at the end of the crew compartment and only thinner, spaced armor/storage boxes protect the rest of the turret. So I'd say:
    Challenger 2: a few weakspots, but no armor upgrades to the main armor Leclerc: a lot of weakspots, but lower weight and a smaller profile when approached directly from the turret front M1 Abrams: upgraded armor with less weakspots, but less efficient design (large turret profile and armor covers whole turret sides) So if you look for a tank that is well protected, has upgraded armor and uses the armor efficiently, the current Leopard 2 should be called best protected tank.
  2. Tank You
    SH_MM got a reaction from Jeeps_Guns_Tanks in Contemporary Western Tank Rumble!   
    Well, if you include TUSK as armor kit for the Abrams, then you also have to include the different Theatre Entry Standards (TES) armor kits (three versions at least) of the Challenger 2. The base armor however was most likely not upgraded.
     
    The Leclerc is not geometrically more efficient. It could have been, if it's armor layout wasn't designed so badly. The Leclerc trades a smaller frontal profile for a larger number of weakspots. It uses a bulge-type turret (no idea about the proper English term), because otherwise a low-profile turret would mean reduced gun depression (breech block hits the roof when firing). There is bulge/box on the Leclerc turret roof, which is about one feet tall and located in the centerline of the turret. It is connected to the interior of the tank, as it serves as space for the breech block to travel when the gun is depressed. With this bulge the diffence between the Leopard 2's and Leclerc's roof height is about 20 milimetres.
     

     
    The problem with this bulge is, that it is essentially un-armored (maybe 40-50 mm steel armor); otherwise the Leclerc wouldn't save any weight. While the bulge is hidden from direct head-on attacks, it is exposed when the tank is attacked from an angle. Given that modern APFSDS usually do not riccochet at impact angles larger than 10-15° and most RPGs are able to fuze at such an angle, the Leclerc has a very weakly armored section that can be hit from half to two-thirds of the frontal arc and will always be penetrated.
     

     
    The next issue is the result of the gunner's sight layout. While it is somewhat reminiscent of the Leopard 2's original gunner's sight placement for some people, it is actually designed differently. The Leopard 2's original sight layout has armor in front and behind the gunner's sight, the sight also doesn't extend to the bottom of the turret. On the Leclerc things are very different, the sight is placed in front of the armor and this reduces overall thickness. This problem has been reduced by installing another armor block in front of the guner's sight, but it doesn't cover the entire crew.
     

     
    The biggest issue of the Leclerc is however the gun shield. It's tiny, only 30 mm thick! Compared to that the Leopard 2 had a 420 mm gun shield already in 1979. The French engineers went with having pretty much the largest gun mantlet of all contemporary tanks, but decided to add the thinnest gun shield for protection. They decided to instead go for a thicker armor (steel) block at the gun trunnions.
     

     
    Still the protection of the gun mantlet seems to be sub-par compared to the Leopard 2 (420 mm armor block + 200-250 mm steel for the gun trunion mount on the original tank) and even upgraded Leopard 2 tanks. The Abrams has a comparable weak protected gun mantlet, but it has a much smaller surface. The Challenger 2 seems to have thicker armor at the gun, comparable to the Leopard 2.
     
    Also, the Leclerc has longer (not thicker) turret side armor compared to the Leopard 2 and Challenger 2, because the armor needs to protect the autoloader. On the other tanks, the thick armor at the end of the crew compartment and only thinner, spaced armor/storage boxes protect the rest of the turret. So I'd say:
    Challenger 2: a few weakspots, but no armor upgrades to the main armor Leclerc: a lot of weakspots, but lower weight and a smaller profile when approached directly from the turret front M1 Abrams: upgraded armor with less weakspots, but less efficient design (large turret profile and armor covers whole turret sides) So if you look for a tank that is well protected, has upgraded armor and uses the armor efficiently, the current Leopard 2 should be called best protected tank.
  3. Tank You
    SH_MM got a reaction from Sturgeon in Contemporary Western Tank Rumble!   
    Well, if you include TUSK as armor kit for the Abrams, then you also have to include the different Theatre Entry Standards (TES) armor kits (three versions at least) of the Challenger 2. The base armor however was most likely not upgraded.
     
    The Leclerc is not geometrically more efficient. It could have been, if it's armor layout wasn't designed so badly. The Leclerc trades a smaller frontal profile for a larger number of weakspots. It uses a bulge-type turret (no idea about the proper English term), because otherwise a low-profile turret would mean reduced gun depression (breech block hits the roof when firing). There is bulge/box on the Leclerc turret roof, which is about one feet tall and located in the centerline of the turret. It is connected to the interior of the tank, as it serves as space for the breech block to travel when the gun is depressed. With this bulge the diffence between the Leopard 2's and Leclerc's roof height is about 20 milimetres.
     

     
    The problem with this bulge is, that it is essentially un-armored (maybe 40-50 mm steel armor); otherwise the Leclerc wouldn't save any weight. While the bulge is hidden from direct head-on attacks, it is exposed when the tank is attacked from an angle. Given that modern APFSDS usually do not riccochet at impact angles larger than 10-15° and most RPGs are able to fuze at such an angle, the Leclerc has a very weakly armored section that can be hit from half to two-thirds of the frontal arc and will always be penetrated.
     

     
    The next issue is the result of the gunner's sight layout. While it is somewhat reminiscent of the Leopard 2's original gunner's sight placement for some people, it is actually designed differently. The Leopard 2's original sight layout has armor in front and behind the gunner's sight, the sight also doesn't extend to the bottom of the turret. On the Leclerc things are very different, the sight is placed in front of the armor and this reduces overall thickness. This problem has been reduced by installing another armor block in front of the guner's sight, but it doesn't cover the entire crew.
     

     
    The biggest issue of the Leclerc is however the gun shield. It's tiny, only 30 mm thick! Compared to that the Leopard 2 had a 420 mm gun shield already in 1979. The French engineers went with having pretty much the largest gun mantlet of all contemporary tanks, but decided to add the thinnest gun shield for protection. They decided to instead go for a thicker armor (steel) block at the gun trunnions.
     

     
    Still the protection of the gun mantlet seems to be sub-par compared to the Leopard 2 (420 mm armor block + 200-250 mm steel for the gun trunion mount on the original tank) and even upgraded Leopard 2 tanks. The Abrams has a comparable weak protected gun mantlet, but it has a much smaller surface. The Challenger 2 seems to have thicker armor at the gun, comparable to the Leopard 2.
     
    Also, the Leclerc has longer (not thicker) turret side armor compared to the Leopard 2 and Challenger 2, because the armor needs to protect the autoloader. On the other tanks, the thick armor at the end of the crew compartment and only thinner, spaced armor/storage boxes protect the rest of the turret. So I'd say:
    Challenger 2: a few weakspots, but no armor upgrades to the main armor Leclerc: a lot of weakspots, but lower weight and a smaller profile when approached directly from the turret front M1 Abrams: upgraded armor with less weakspots, but less efficient design (large turret profile and armor covers whole turret sides) So if you look for a tank that is well protected, has upgraded armor and uses the armor efficiently, the current Leopard 2 should be called best protected tank.
  4. Tank You
    SH_MM got a reaction from Collimatrix in General AFV Thread   
    According to Russian Defence-Blog.com, this is the wheeled Barys IFV. It is claimed to be a new development and not directly related to the Bismarck. It is developed by the Paramount Group of South Africa. Their websites calls it the "Mbombe 8". Given the poor armor (ballistic protection according to STANAG 4569 level 3) and low maximum (gross vehicle) weight of only 28 tonnes according to the press release, I would assume that there is no relation to the Bismarck "wheeled tank".
     
    The current Boxer A2 as Combat Reconnaisance Vehicle has a maximum gross vehicle weight of 38.5 tonnes and ballistic protection according to level 6 of STANAG 4569.
  5. Tank You
    SH_MM got a reaction from Belesarius in StuG III Thread (and also other German vehicles I guess)   
    Time to get some more Wiesels in here:
     

     
    Wiesel eDK2 prototype with new running gear and suspension.
    Source: flickr
     

     
    Wiesel DIOK prototype with stretched hull, new shock dampeners and track spanners. Turret is mock-up. Might be fitted with the hydropneutic suspension units in the left of this picture (?).
    Source: flickr
     

     
    Wiesel with experimental hybrid drive (iirc. diesel-electrical) and fibre-composite roadwheels (weight reduction 45% to 55% compared to the oriuginal roadwheels).
    Source: flickr
     

     
    Wiesel 2 WITCH prototype. Can be remotely controlled as a UGV, but in general the German Army is still waiting for an official NATO standard for (UGV) software architecture.
  6. Tank You
    SH_MM got a reaction from Collimatrix in StuG III Thread (and also other German vehicles I guess)   
    Time to get some more Wiesels in here:
     

     
    Wiesel eDK2 prototype with new running gear and suspension.
    Source: flickr
     

     
    Wiesel DIOK prototype with stretched hull, new shock dampeners and track spanners. Turret is mock-up. Might be fitted with the hydropneutic suspension units in the left of this picture (?).
    Source: flickr
     

     
    Wiesel with experimental hybrid drive (iirc. diesel-electrical) and fibre-composite roadwheels (weight reduction 45% to 55% compared to the oriuginal roadwheels).
    Source: flickr
     

     
    Wiesel 2 WITCH prototype. Can be remotely controlled as a UGV, but in general the German Army is still waiting for an official NATO standard for (UGV) software architecture.
  7. Tank You
    SH_MM got a reaction from LoooSeR in The Merkava, Israel's Chieftain?   
    Now the IDF got their own wheeled death traps™.
  8. Tank You
    SH_MM got a reaction from Belesarius in The Merkava, Israel's Chieftain?   
    Now the IDF got their own wheeled death traps™.
  9. Tank You
    SH_MM got a reaction from Marsh in The Merkava, Israel's Chieftain?   
    Now the IDF got their own wheeled death traps™.
  10. Tank You
    SH_MM got a reaction from Belesarius in United States Military Vehicle General: Guns, G*vins, and Gas Turbines   
    No, all actual production models had optical rangefinders. The tank from your photograph belongs to the pre-series production batch and was produced after the second generation of prototypes. However all first generation prototypes (build from 1959 on) had optical rangefinders, but can be identified by a number of other factors: much lower weight (designed to meet the 30 ton "Europe tank" limit, but actual prototypes were five to six tons heavier), lower armor protection (for example the glacis armor was only 50 mm at 45° instead of 70 mm at 60°) and 90 mm guns manufactured by Rheinmetall with muzzle brakes. The first generation of prototypes was never used in troop trials.
     
    On the second generation of prototypes the weight and armor protection was increased and the British L7A3 tank gun was fitted. Originally these prototypes had a ranging machine gun like the British Centurion tank, the only tank that used the L7 gun at the time the Leopard 1 prototypes were designed. As the performance of the ranging machine gun was bad, the prototypes were later fitted with new optical rangefinders.
  11. Tank You
    SH_MM got a reaction from Sturgeon in United States Military Vehicle General: Guns, G*vins, and Gas Turbines   
    This is one of the 26 Leopard 1 prototypes of the second generation (build 1962), which originally was fitted with a ranging machine gun (12.7 mm; above the gun barrel) instead of a rangefinder. This was a dumbt idea and subsequently the prototypes were fitted with optical rangefinders just like the previous M48 and M47 tanks used by the German Army.
  12. Tank You
    SH_MM got a reaction from Collimatrix in United States Military Vehicle General: Guns, G*vins, and Gas Turbines   
    This is one of the 26 Leopard 1 prototypes of the second generation (build 1962), which originally was fitted with a ranging machine gun (12.7 mm; above the gun barrel) instead of a rangefinder. This was a dumbt idea and subsequently the prototypes were fitted with optical rangefinders just like the previous M48 and M47 tanks used by the German Army.
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