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Jägerlein

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Posts posted by Jägerlein

  2. Israeli AFVs

    in Mechanized Warfare

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

    Very unlikely. 

    The CT40 is a joint UK-French project. Both these countries are considered unreliable arms exporters by Israel.

    This seems to be no issue when it comes to ships and submarines since Germany is a lot less export friendly compared to out neighbours

  3. Bash the F-35 thred.

    in Aviation

    Posted

    54 minutes ago, juretrn said:

    Because an F-35 is going to do ground support from below 1000 feet (not that the A-10 does much of that as well once you hang Hellfires and LGBs from it).

    What's next, judging an A-10 by its ability to go supersonic?

    I only showed that the two statements aren't mutually exclusive. No statement about the A-10 or F-35 included nor intended from my side.
    And yes, the ability for supersonic flight might be a plus on the F-35's side -_-.

  8. European Union common defense thread

    in Open Discussion

    Posted

    For every German who's not allergic to everything connected to defense or god beware weapons the situation is kind of frustrating.
    There are many things that our current Minister of Defense "Panzer-Ursel" could have done better - the relation between her and the
    troops could be called shattered. But she did one thing that was unquestionable one of the biggest favour the Bundewehr received since 1991:
    She made the poor state of all amred services branches public instead of keeping it out of the public view like her predecessors did.
    The German public developed such a thing like an awareness to the problem and was open to spend money to solve the problem.
    And Panzer-Ursel got more money. Less than wanted and less than needed in the long term but with the perspective of little increases every year.
    Then President Trump started with his loud demands for the 2% which culminated in the days before the Nato summit. An guess what we could

    read in the press last week ? Trump want's it so we shouldn't do it.
    That's the point where you realize that a Beer is not enough to calm you down. But Donald rescued the day! His "joke" about 4% instead of 2%
    was just great! Because come on - what would amuse the Poles and the French more than Germanys Wehr-expenditures being only trumped by
    the US and China? And even our new alt-right movement would have a reason to think/dream big again!

  9. Israeli AFVs

    in Mechanized Warfare

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

    Other than Jordan, there are now only 2 Merkava 1 tanks roaming free outside Israel. One in the Czech Republic, and another one travelling, being spotted at least in France and Russia.

     

    This seems like a gesture of improving ties above all else. I believe 2-3 years ago Jordan took delivery of a squadron of AH-1Z Cobra helicopters free of charge.

    The one in Munster doesn't count? Or is it because it's an Mk. I ( the black sign on the lfp reads "Merkava Mk. I" ) which received some of the Mk. II upgrades? FCS and some ITAR parts got removed but it should be able to move on own power as far as I know.
    NgKL4WrHh6EUdOjyeFETEkTRCjzyeuo5NM8KdElr

  11. Britons are in trouble

    in Mechanized Warfare

    Posted

    @Mighty_ZukAre you refering to the half-generation steps?  Because this avoids exactly the situation that you have to live from hand to mouth via upgrade programms. Upgrade the old ones while the successor is already in the pipeline.
    The series would be smaller today but since the tanks are more expansive the monetary volume would be comparable. Admittedly it can only work if some countries decide to buy their new tanks instead of brewing their own thing
    or buy from Uncle Sam. I hope KNDS is the right tool to avoid a further AMX-30/ Leo 1 outcome.

  12. Britons are in trouble

    in Mechanized Warfare

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

    Now, a tank is built to last 40 years. That is the consensus. Go for 50 and maybe upgrades will keep it breathing but they may not be cheaper than a brand new tank.

     

    So if you build 30 a year and have to replace a tank every 40 years, you'll need to maintain an inventory of 1,200 tanks at any given moment.

    In Germany a return to the half-generation steps could be helpfull to keep the machinery running. But this system was given up with the Leopard 2 and the end of the Cold War.
     

    2 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

    The UK has a 1/3rd of that. France as well. Germany I think has even less but I'm not sure on its numbers. And I'm talking about stored tanks, not in service.

    Germany 320+8+32 ( in Service/for trials/ used chassis in Storage for future projects). These numbers already includes the 104 vehicles which were bought back from the industry in 2017 and the upgrades will be finished in 2023.
     

     

    1 hour ago, SH_MM said:

     

    The longer L/55A1 is only required to defeat the latest Russian armor, i.e. the T-14 Armata and potentially the T-80BVM/T-90M. Against other targets such as infantry, structures, lightly armored vehicles and most other tanks (including modernized T-72s), the L/44 gun is considered enough. Due to its shorter barrel, a Leopard 2A7 tank with the L/44 is better suited for peace-keeping missions [...]

    It gets chaotic with the nomenclature. German A6 and newer means L/55 and now the Danish are coming up with L/44 A7(DK) :blink:
     

  17. Britons are in trouble

    in Mechanized Warfare

    Posted

    3 hours ago, SH_MM said:

     

    The main work for the Leopard 2A7V uppgrade is done by KMW. The contract was not awarded to Rheinmetall, this company acts only as a sub-contractor (i.e. parts for the Leopard 2A7V like the gun and FCS are made by Rheinmetall). The lion's share of the work is done by KMW and the schedule is mostly a result of their work backlog:

    Yup. I honestly was to focused on the L55/A1 as the biggest part which changes from A7 to A7V without taking all the things into account that are necessary to bring old A4s on A7 level. A quick google seach would have helped - ~760 mio €
    volume and only 120 mio for Rheinmetall. My bad

     

    3 hours ago, SH_MM said:

    KMW's facility in Kassel is very close to Rheinmetall's Kassel facility, where the gun and FCS were made)

    I could see KMW's gates for 5 years from my window...shitty area to live.
     

     

    3 hours ago, SH_MM said:

    Qatar ordered its 62 Leopard 2A7Q tanks, 24 Panzerhaubitze 2000 artillery systems, unknown number of Dingo 2s and 32 Fenneks in 2013, but in 2016 only about half of the vehicles had been delivered. If you add the Danish contract to the mix aswell as orders from the Bundeswehr (Dingo 2s, Fennek JFST, and some of the Boxers are made by KMW) and other NATO countries, then it is easy to see why KMW needs so much time to deliver the German Leopard 2A7V tanks.

    Rheinmetall also has lots of orders (most Boxers and most parts of the Puma + the final integration are made by Rheinmetall), but it is a much larger company (~23 thousand vs ~2.7 thousand employees) and much more open for international cooperation (only 25 out of 211 Boxer CRVs for the Australian army are being made in Germany, the work for only 8 full and 12 partial Leopard 2PL upgrades out of 128 tanks will be made in Germany).

    Yes, my shot from the hip was directed at the wrong target but with your further argument you underlined my intended statement: An upgrade programm for up to 200 further Leo would probably take forever.
    It's the same mess with spare parts. While this problem is mainly caused by a bureaucrazy that believes/ed in "just in time" in the military sector, it is aggravated by an indistry not willing to expand it's productionlines without the assurance that their capacities can be fully occupied for a whole generation. Yes from an economical view I cand understand it and that they are afraid of a flash in the pan situation. 
    This is by the way one of the main arguments brought up against the 2% GdP - this amount of money could ot be spend in a reasonable way: The indigenous indistry ( at least Land and Air) has no free capacity for "sponaneous orders" and the procurement department is....a mess.

    Summa summarum this is the reason why I that the Abrams as an interim solution would be more expensive but more reliable for the British. Getting some upgraded Leo 2s in 2025-2028 sounds bad if they only want a gap filler untill 2035. Well they are probably used to short lived systems and probably a bit hardend up thanks to the L85A1s and Chally 1/2s lifetime but it would still be a waste. At least if they start now to think about their next MBT. 

    
 
    
 

  18. General news thread

    in Open Discussion

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

    The reason the figures are estimates is that the so called authorities in Afghanistan don't have a fucking clue what is going on in half the country, that being due to the fact that they don't control it...

    You are a bit pessimistic! Karsai and his relatives were probably well aware of what is happening and at least partially in controll of the opium industry...family buisness. His successors might not be as efficient in this area like the Karsai administration was but "no clue" and "no control" is a serious defamation for the current administrations ability to earn some baksheesh ;)

    Honestly, I don't doubt the probably all time high of the Afghan opium production. But Mr. Murray is just a punch who's not able or to lazy to find proper statistics - because the one he used is completely useless in this context. At least for anyone who knows that the word "potential" means that every ha of farmable land would be used to plant poppies. Butt well...he also postulates that the Russian state is behind all the opium traffic.

  19. Britons are in trouble

    in Mechanized Warfare

    Posted

    @Alzoc@SH_MM

    How long would it take the US to upgrade their old M1s? Serious question, because their capacities are probably at an astronomic level compared to "ours".
    And yes, KMW has still some projects in the pipeline, while RUAG has the product but no pipeline...Rheinmetall is imo even worse.

    They got contracted with the A7Vupgrade in September 2017 and the first of these 104 upgraded Leopards are expected to be delivered in 2020 while the order is expected to be finished in 2023!
    This time would only be adequade and acceptable if each of those tanks will be disassembled to the tiniest part and cleaned with toothbrushes by members of the management board.


    Rheinmetall COULD expand it's capacities because there's really enough work to do - but they avoid it as far as possible for political reasons. It's a "Fuck you" in return for
    the slightly more harsh export regulations and explained with a not forseeable sustainablility ("Today you want more tanks but tomorrow could be 1990 again").


    If Rheinmetall would show the same "enthusiam" with the upgrades for ~200 UK Leos the first tanks would arrive 2030? And if Rheinmetall would magically find the capacities
    to do the job in parallel to the German order, the BAAINBW would be not amused and could keep that in mind when it comes to KNDS vs. Rheinmetall (well actually I'm not shure

    if they would notice it since they are not really quick-witted).

    yes, my opinion might be influenced by a little grudge.

  20. Britons are in trouble

    in Mechanized Warfare

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Alzoc said:

     

    That would most likely be more expensive than buying off the shelves M1s anyway (and would probably make the tank even more overweight than it already is)

    The Germans also proposed them to buy second hand Leopard 2 at some point which would have been cheaper and more effective (from a combat potential PoV) than upgrading their CR2 but it was shot down for pride reasons apparently.

     

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ministry-of-defence-mod-german-tank-deal-manufacturer-krauss-maffei-wegmann-leopard-2-tank-fear-a7510681.html

    Buying 2nd hand Leos would also be an expensive interim solution wouldn't it? Some old "off the shelf" A4s wouldn't be an improvement so the tanks need to be upgraded to A7Vs or with one of the upgrade Packages offered by the Industry while only RUAG and partially KMW should have ad hoc free capacity to do so. Buying M1A2 and hoping that the former colonists won't sell a monkey version would really be the cheaper and faster solution...besides pride reasons.

    While one could argue that this would be their opportunity for the Tommies to get their hands on an actual tank, after they refused their opportunity in 1940 *duckandcover*

  21. Active Protection System (APS) for tanks

    in Ballistics Science Discussion

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Bronezhilet said:

    My biggest point against it is: If you can initiate the ERA with the impact from the warhead, you can initiate the warhead with the same impact.  And wouldn't that completely negate the whole system?

    If we are a bit nitpicky with the wording of the articles and draw conclusions from it: Only tandem-charges are mentioned and the destruction of the main warheadand furthermore it is mentioned that the system is designed for heavy vehicles ( with a healthy amount of armor beneath it). So: Could the tiny delay between the precursor and the maincharge be enough to defeat the latter? Furthermore is it a viable idea to apply an active armor part that only works against tandem-charges and is the passive (blue) part plus the base armor enough to defeat single-charges (e.g. PzF3 700mm/ Milan 2 880mm)...doubt it.

  23. General news thread

    in Open Discussion

    Posted

    54 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

     

    Considering NATO's involvement starts in 2002, so are you.....Massively so.  :lol:

    Someone with an opposite opinion could read this statistic like: "Oh the Nato intervention massively improved the situation because the agricultural sector is booming". Yes, that's BS, too. But this statistic is just not suitable for these kinds of conclutions. Percantage of cropland used for poppies, est. production of raw opium in tons - this is what you need.

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