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Xoon

United States Gun Control Megathread

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[Collimatrix here, I fissioned this off from the active shooters thread.  It's good discussion, but it should be separated from the other thread.]

 

What is the tolerance for violence and misbehavior in US schools? 

 

I honestly do not have much of a good experience with US schools, I know very personally a girl who was assaulted and beaten, and sent to the hospital by a group of black girls because someone spread a rumor about her being racist.  The irony being that she is scared shitless of being racist, to the point of fearing for her life. 

 

We have some fights on the schools here too, but usually only a fist fight, once on a blue moon a retard grabs a pipe or spike gun ammunition or a knife, but no murders or grievous wounds. 

 

I only know one mentally unstable individual on the highschools in my area, and I know he does not currently have access to any effective weaponry, if he ever does I will be sure to watch him.

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53 minutes ago, Xoon said:

What is the tolerance for violence and misbehavior in US schools? 

 

Very low, but discipline is also correspondingly low. Neither really matter in this case, as the guy was apparently a total looney.

 

 

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59 minutes ago, Xoon said:

What is the tolerance for violence and misbehavior in US schools? 

 

 

Both of my parents were teachers in public schools before getting work with the DOD.  

 

Basically "Every kid is a special snowflake, and YOU must be doing something wrong" was the attitude they had to deal with. 

Parents would treat school like daycare for their blossoming juvenile delinquents, or they'd be a pain to the administration because "Little Johnny is SPECIAL".

Then you had nonsense like  trying to integrate mentally handicapped/headcases with the bulk of people just trying to get through the day, coupled with absurdly huge class sizes, idiotic testing and the general assembly line attitude 

possessed by most school boards. 

 

Add to this pressure from interests like the fans of the school's teams, saying "You HAVE to pass this guy, so we can go to State!", special interest groups both wanting to influence what one taught, as well as being all but slathering to claim "racism" or "bigotry" if one dared disagree with them. 

 

And the icing, is the absurd amount of money spent on administrative pay, versus actually spending money on infrastructure and teaching supplies.  Basic things like "making sure the heat is on and the pipes don't leak" or "that there is enough paper" get ignored

so that the social services counselor can get a new office, or so the (insert favorite H.S. sports team) can have new uniforms or a custom bus..

 

Basically-

It's a shit-show, built on the rotting foundation of an education system that was basically designed to create a semi-interchangeable employee for the then expanding industrial base.

Now it's an inflexible, archaic mess of bureaucratic welfare and political payola that results in pissed off, poorly educated students, pissed off parents, pissed off teachers and a standard of education that is laughable.

 

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The left has no clue what kind of Pandora's box actually trying to confiscate guns in mass would be. I don't know a single gun owner who would give them up willingly, most would just report anything on record as stolen, but others would fight it out, because to them, the second is the canary in the mine for government tyranny, even in California. 

 

The Media and the countries lack of any push for morals or personal responsibly, hell the outright hostility towards it,  in the education system, have produced a lot worthless fucking people, and those factors are more important to the issue than guns. Ban guns, they will use bombs, knives, acid, or trucks. 

 

 

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It's a super complex issue, with a bunch of differing necessities.  People want easy fixes.  "DO SOMETHING"...

 

I dunno, y'all gotta do better on something though. I don't have a fix that I can see working myself.  Too many conflicting interest groups.

 

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7 minutes ago, Belesarius said:

It's a super complex issue, with a bunch of differing necessities.  People want easy fixes.  "DO SOMETHING"...

 

I dunno, y'all gotta do better on something though. I don't have a fix that I can see working myself.  Too many conflicting interest groups.

 

Actually, both homicide, and firearm related homicide are on a sharp and solid decline. You are just hearing about it more due to the easy dissemination of info, and lazy media playing into scumbag politicians and activitists looking to push an agenda. 

 

CDC figures to 2010

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There was a slight uptick in violent crime under Obama, probably due to his blatant anti-police bias, and his corrupt justice department, but it's trending back down now and never went back up to even close to 70s levels.  But I thought I'd throw it in to point out how shitty Obama was. 

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9 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

Also, why are lefties so opposed to having armed guards on school grounds, and securing he campuses so you can track who comes and goes?

Kinda horrified that it's necessary dude.

I live in a city roughly the size of Chicago, with a similar geographic area. 2-3 rough weekends there is our yearly homicide rate.  I don't understand how you live like that.

 

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6 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

There was a slight uptick in violent crime under Obama, probably due to his blatant anti-police bias, and his corrupt justice department, but it's trending back down now and never went back up to even close to 70s levels.  But I thought I'd throw it in to point out how shitty Obama was. 

I'll lay blame more on the media, than any direct actions of "The Mocha Messiah". 

5 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

Also, why are lefties so opposed to having armed guards on school grounds, and securing he campuses so you can track who comes and goes?

If I had a kid, and their school enacted same, they'd be pulled out and home schooled the next day, and for as long as said school was enacting such idiocy.

You do not get a citizen, by sending them to an armed camp to learn.

You get sheep. 

 

There is a place for what you propose, and it's in the long neglected job of keeping troublemakers from getting into these schools in the first place (as well as changing how public school works).

 

 

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1 minute ago, Meplat said:

I'll lay blame more on the media, than any direct actions of "The Mocha Messiah". 

If I had a kid, and their school enacted same, they'd be pulled out and home schooled the next day, and for as long as said school was enacting such idiocy.

You do not get a citizen, by sending them to an armed camp to learn.

You get sheep. 

 

There is a place for what you propose, and it's in the long neglected job of keeping troublemakers from getting into these schools in the first place (as well as changing how public school works).

 

 

Fucking THIS

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1 minute ago, Meplat said:

I'll lay blame more on the media, than any direct actions of "The Mocha Messiah". 

If I had a kid, and their school enacted same, they'd be pulled out and home schooled the next day, and for as long as said school was enacting such idiocy.

You do not get a citizen, by sending them to an armed camp to learn.

You get sheep. 

 

There is a place for what you propose, and it's in the long neglected job of keeping troublemakers from getting into these schools in the first place (as well as changing how public school works).

 

 

 

 

But we are already getting sheep, and stupid sheep, who actually believe there is no biological difference between men and women! If I had kids today, they wouldn't be in public schools at all. 

 

Mocha Messiah... I like that!

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Belesarius said:

Fucking THIS

 

 

Why is having armed guards or cops on campus a bad thing again?  No one seems to care that inner-city schools have metal detectors, maybe that's the route?  If the kids and people who belong there, can come and go as they please, why is having security for a school a bad thing?

 

We ain't banning guns, making them gun-free zones clearly invites this type of thing, so what's the short-term fix if not more security. 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

 

But we are already getting sheep, and stupid sheep, who actually believe there is no biological difference between men and women! If I had kids today, they wouldn't be in public schools at all. 

 

Mocha Messiah... I like that!

 

 

We are getting -near- sheep.  Having a situation where a parent or concerned citizen cannot observe what is being taught in school is Orwellian.  We are damn close to that as it is. 

 

And I cannot claim that name for him. A friend back in Flagstaff came up with it. 

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Meplat and I are in total agreement here. Media concentration and the degradation of the quality of actual reporting is a HUGE (Bigger than Trump's ego kind HUUUUGE) issue. The media is fucking shittastic.  We're having an issue here in Canada with this. It won't be on anyone on SH's radar, but CTV media is under fire for basically getting the head of the Ontario PC party canned for 'sexual impropriety'... except when you look a bit deeper, they are alleging coerced sex with underage girls when it was a 19 year old (legally of age to drink and vote) and a 25-ish year old who had a tentative work relationship and she came back and worked with him again the next summer. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

 

Why is having armed guards or cops on campus a bad thing again?  No one seems to care that inner-city schools have metal detectors, maybe that's the route?  If the kids and people who belong there, can come and go as they please, why is having security for a school a bad thing?

 

We ain't banning guns, making them gun-free zones clearly invites this type of thing, so what's the short-term fix if not more security. 

 

 

 

Teachers and administration know who the troublemakers are, they are not doing anything because they are hamstrung.  If you look at the history of the active shooters in school shootings, there were, more times than not, plenty of warning signs that were ignored.

Besides. When I was in school,there was no way in hell I'd have made it through a metal detector in a timely manner.  By my sophomore year I was almost full time Voc Ed, and doing all kinds of sidework. 

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2 minutes ago, Meplat said:

We are getting -near- sheep.  Having a situation where a parent or concerned citizen cannot observe what is being taught in school is Orwellian.  We are damn close to that as it is. 

 

And I cannot claim that name for him. A friend back in Flagstaff came up with it. 

 

Oh, I didn't say that the security would be just to keep out people that don't belong, granted that's not as easy as it sounds, but parents should be able to come on campus, they may have to show and ID though. 

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2 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

 

Why is having armed guards or cops on campus a bad thing again?  No one seems to care that inner-city schools have metal detectors, maybe that's the route?  If the kids and people who belong there, can come and go as they please, why is having security for a school a bad thing?

 

We ain't banning guns, making them gun-free zones clearly invites this type of thing, so what's the short-term fix if not more security. 

 

 

 

Because having armed agents of the state in schools is kinda not cool dude. Papers Citizen!

No thanks.

 

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3 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

Oh, I didn't say that the security would be just to keep out people that don't belong, granted that's not as easy as it sounds, but parents should be able to come on campus, they may have to show and ID though. 

It's still, the concept of a razor wire topped fence around a supposed place of learning, with a metal detector and armed security at points of entry.

 

I'm rubbed raw enough at that concept when I have to deal with jury duty. 

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Just now, Belesarius said:

Because having armed agents of the state in schools is kinda not cool dude. Papers Citizen!

No thanks.

 

 

 

So having to show your ID, is so much a hassle on a campus, your willing to leave them with no security? That seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater, in the US at least, YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS while in school, ok well you have very limited rights. Like your right to the defend yourself.  Anyway, since we have to forfeit rights, anyway, why not get some security?  The USA is not Canada, there is not getting rid of guns here. So whats the fix?

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1 minute ago, Meplat said:

It's still, the concept of a razor wire topped fence around a supposed place of learning, with a metal detector and armed security at points of entry.

 

I'm rubbed raw enough at that concept when I have to deal with jury duty. 

 

 

I understand the objection, but they are not going to let students arm themselves, and they already do this stuff in poor neighborhoods, and no one seems to care.    Is this our white privilege showing?

 

 

(Joking)

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1 minute ago, Belesarius said:

I find it really freaking odd that I'm the one of all people arguing this point... Just sayin'

 

 

What point? The no ID thing or the no pigs on campus, or the general lack of any ideas yourself?;)

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1 minute ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

 

So having to show your ID, is so much a hassle on a campus, your willing to leave them with no security? That seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater, in the US at least, YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS while in school, ok well you have very limited rights. Like your right to the defend yourself.  Anyway, since we have to forfeit rights, anyway, why not get some security?  The USA is not Canada, there is not getting rid of guns here. So whats the fix?

I don't know and have said that previously.  I don't know how to reconcile the Constitutional right to own a firearm regardless of competence to use it, and community safety.  Y'all have made your choices as a country. There are costs to those choices. Can you live with them?

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