Sturgeon
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Everything posted by Sturgeon
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You've got a long way to go, I agree, but you gotta start somewhere. Maybe US milproc has just made me very low expectation, but I think it's a little weird not to take the wins when you get them. I wanted to address a couple of other things: 1. Nobody said anything to the contrary (and I appreciate you for not going there), but obviously my enthusiasm for the Abrams here is primarily that they will be available much sooner than Leopards. If the situation were reversed, I'd be in pretty much the same position. As I like to say: 2. "Poland has a tank development project". OK, but, give me a break? Poland's government is wrong when it's procuring tanks from the US, but it's right when it's got some slush project to develop a new tank that won't see service for 15 years? That's a little bit of dissonance, I think, unless I'm missing some key ingredient to the idea. Not that I have anything against Poland creating domestic tanks, but if your entire military industrial complex is riddled with grifters and cons, then maybe putting your eggs in the "buy tanks from the Americans" basket makes more sense than the "undertake a big long development project where all the incentives are there to stretch it out as much as possible to milk the Polish taxpayers for cash". 3. I'm not sure I understand the objection that there's no involvement of domestic Polish industry. Poland will be purchasing the tanks and maintaining them. No, they're not making them themselves, but that's because they need the tanks right now (again, for the sake of argument ignoring that there may be other military priorities that are more pressing, you need tanks). Also, the complaint that you're running multiple types of tanks is... A bit weird considering the tanks in question. Abrams and Leopard are sister tanks. They share most of their wear parts like roadwheels, tracks, etc.
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Pardon, the 786 figure I was remembering was from something different (US SEPv3 procurement). Been rather busy the last few days, I'll take that one on the chin. I still think Abrams is good for Poland and the negative reaction is basically Polish people's natural skepticism of their own milproc. Which is healthy.
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I had read that the buy was for 783 tanks.
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As far as I'm aware, and I'm conceding right off the bat that I'm not an expert, the tanks Poland has are either obsolete or inadequate in number. Poland is acquiring well more than 5 times the number of Abrams as they have Leo 2s on the upgrade path. First thing to note, these tanks exist and are ready to go (American tank production/conversion facilities are well under capacity by design) in short order. Second thing to note, these tanks share full operational compatibility with the largest tank operator in Europe. I don't think these factors can be ignored. Polish authors are very quick to say "we have more pressing concerns", but do you? Your tanks are not in a good place! This doesn't seem like a bad buy to me.
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All the people trying to argue that Poland adopting the most proven and solid main battle tank on earth is a bad thing just because it's American is really giving me a laugh. No, it's not the only worthy tank on earth. I'm not Damien. Maybe the K2 would have been better. But Poland needs assets and now. It's funny to me how the arguments revolve around effectively toenail clippings.
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I was ribbing our Russian fellows.
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F-35ski
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Thank you for changing your avatar. Banned.
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I'm being dead serious: this is a bannable offense and you have 3 hours to change it.
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Yes you missed the rule about no anime avatars which this forum has had since 2014.
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Hmmm, I see you've run afoul of the forum's "no anime avatars" rule...
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United States Military Vehicle General: Guns, G*vins, and Gas Turbines
Sturgeon replied to Tied's topic in Mechanized Warfare
The fuck is that rollbar thing? -
That's a good thing. Just put in a good effort to get something together that the judges can sink their teeth into, is my advice.
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I did laugh mightily at the interleaved road wheels.
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I find all of this very amusing since I didn't mention anything about the Nazis from whom that designation system comes, just that the chronology and geography didn't make sense.
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German history? Including the history of a designation system used exclusively from 1933-1945? What period of "german history" is that, pray tell?
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That's a healthy attitude; most submissions include jokes and easter eggs.
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Very perceptive. I won't try to get things by you again!
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That's actually not the case, the nomenclature he's using is distinctly Nazi, not just German: I am not the foremost expert on German armored vehicles, but I am not aware of any post-war tanks using this designation system. This makes sense because, you know, the Nazi tank design bureaus were liquidated and sent to France. A domestic armored vehicle wouldn't be created in Germany until the 1950s, and by a completely different group of people. The nomenclature, understandably, didn't survive this transition. As for why I'm prodding him about it, I want to see how far he's willing to take this. We've got a German nomenclature system that was extinct in 1945 which has somehow time-traveled to 2247, and spatially across the Atlantic. This is very interesting! The explanation is of course that delete is an inveterate wehraboo who can't pull his head out of his ass, but I'm highly amused that he doesn't even have a compelling conceit for this. It's just "tanks get Nazi designations". Because of course they do, in his mind. (They also get interleaved roadwheels, for the same reason.) The Texas-German thing was an obvious copout (nevermind that Texas-Germans have different vocabulary - all of their machine-words are English loans - since it comes from peasantry that were imported in the mid-19th Century, 100 years before Nazi Germany existed). I don't remember who suggested that he ought to just say "wehraboos still exist in 2247" as his answer, but I liked that one. It would have made me laugh.
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U touched my pee pee
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Also it's been canon for a really long time that they don't have contact with the Atlantic States, much less Europe.
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They got... Nazi design bureaus from 1945 after the nuclear war in 2029? Which are still around 218 years later?
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I've been to many German Texas cities, and not only do they not have Nazi-style panzer design bureaus, they don't even have many of those words.
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The extension has been okay'd by a judge. @A. T. Mahan @Dominus Dolorem @Lord_James you have a reprieve. No new timeline has been set, please let us know when you think you might be able to complete.
