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Indeed we had time, but the question is, how had we used it, and how are we planning on spending the time that lies before us.

Ukraine is granting us time for the necessary modernization of our Armed Forces. And from what I can hear, we are just beginning our shopping spree.

Yep, can't agree more. Ukraine is granting us time. I appreciate the latest contracts for our Air Defence, they are quite good, there is a place for participation from our industry and our AD is rather lacking right now. Taking into account that we are also developing some new and fancy radars for those programs, I'm content with what I'm seeing. But Abrams and now HIMARS are (for me) a completely different story. Well, HIMARS seems better, as it is intended to be coproduced with participation from some of our companies. We will also integrate our artillery management system into HIMARS which will help. Maybe, just maybe, we will also buy a licence to build some parts of the rocket for HIMARS, but there is no definitive answer here.

I agree and don't believe that we will buy those 500x launchers. Currently, we are only asking the USA if they would sell us that amount of equipment and for what price. I won't be surprised if, in the final contract, the number of launchers gets reduced. Although the math (number of launchers needed) does add up. We have four divisions each with three brigades. There are also paratroopers and air cavalry but they don't count. Currently, each division has an artillery regiment with two rocket artillery units (24x launchers each) and two SPH units (24x SPH each), and each brigade has one such unit. If we were to lower the number of HIMARS launchers from 24x to 18x (as Americans have), we would get 18x times twelve (brigades) plus 18x time eight (number of rocket artillery units in divisional artillery regiments) which sums up to 396 launchers. What about the rest then, MOD said that we want to buy close to 500x launchers. Well... an educated guess that is currently circulating in Poland offers two explanations. Either we want to form a new separate artillery brigade at an Army level, and the additional launchers are meant for them, or the MOD wants to form a new (fifth) division: three artillery units for each brigade and two for the division itself would bring the total amount of launchers to 486x which is very close to 500x stated by to MOD. If you want my opinion, whatever they are gonna do the whole concept is ludicrous. So there are a few things to talk about. In many areas our armed forces are outdated, and the gaps that need to be filled are more than 30 years old, there is no denying that. But, our politicians are running rampant, trying to prove to their voters that they take defence seriously, so they are buying everything they can get their hands on. This is very bad, and many people see this, but that is the case with populists they don't care about the long run, what will be in 15/20 years, so arguments about logistics, maintenance and life cycle costs are not something that is being taken into account by our civil administration that is running the army. You are not rude to Poland, you are speaking rationally, and I fully agree with you. Rationality is simply not a trait that is highly valued ;). Adding to our politicians, there are our generals. To put it simply, our armed forces don't care and don't think about the cost of equipment or (generally speaking) economy and industry. They only want to get good equipment and as fast as possible, that's why we chose Abrams, because (simplification) one of our generals, that has good relations with current Defence Minister, wanted to field them in his division. Your arguments are valid. We would be better of by buying weapons that benefit our economy. But to do so, you first need to convince our MOD and Army that this is in their interest. And remember what i said at the beginning, they are populists, ask yourself, what makes the stronger impression on a mind of a voter, acquisition of brand new, amazing and super-duper American F-35/HIMARS - that you as a politician can pose with for a newspaper/TV reporter and maybe get a photo with American Secretary of Defence/American Ambassador, or acquisition of Polish-made MLRS and a photo of some polish-company chairman.

According to military journalists in Poland, in near future, we will be buying some 122mm rocket artillery pieces (polish made BM-21 Grad offsprings) and more 155mm SPH (Krab, maybe Kryl II). If that is to be true, HIMARS is just the beginning. As to the price. €2.6 billion is in my opinion an underestimation. In 2019 we ordered 20 HIMARS launchers (and all necessary equipment, training, logistics etc.) for 1,5 billion zlotys ~€325 million. I understand that it is very, very simplistic math, and generally, we should not count this way, but if we were to buy those 500x launchers for the same price as in 2019, we will pay for them around €8.125 billion. And about the money... i don't think it will come from EU funds. According to my knowledge, Poland generally doesn't spend its share of EU funds on armament and acquisition of new weapons. If i were to guess and point at what will be the source of funds for those 500x HIMARSes, I'd say debt and treasury bonds. Yes, it will be more than was produced for users combined. About the second part... if you were asked mi that a few hours ago, i would agree. Now I'm not so sure.

Good Afternoon, Good Evening, and Good Night. Around 40 minutes ago Polish MOD announced that they have sent out a Letter of Request for the acquisition of 500x M142 HIMARS launchers. The best part is, that this information comes completely out of the blue, and everyone is pretty shocked. There were no prior announcements that we want to buy more HIMARS, let alone 500x launchers. It is mind boggling. https://twitter.com/mblaszczak/status/1529754207284301827?s=20&t=uRuNLSM3IoNU8xp_ixJW6g If they buy those 500x HIMARS, if this LoR takes the form of an LOA agreement, Poland will buy more HIMARS than so far produced.

Some time ago Huta Stalowa Wola (HSW) signed a cooperation agreement with Tatra. The subject of the contract is the design and delivery of a new 4x4 vehicle with complete technical documentation enabling the production of the vehicle in Poland. In my humble opinion the vehicle will use many elements from Patriot II and T 815-7 chassis, whilst being a new product and (from the legal perspective) a different one than Patriot II.

Soooo... Polish Armaments Group just signed a deal for the production of a new tank destroyer armed with Brimstone missiles. Thus Poland becomes the fifth customer for the missile, and the second one (after Ukrain) to field it in a ground launch version. It will look similar to the one on the graphic, although it is meant to use a different chassis. and here is the new chassis Here is the link for the official statement about the establishment of a consortium responsible for the production of said tank destroyer, and here is a link to the statement talking about cooperation with MBDA and the usage of the Brimstone missile. And what is even more interesting is that according to the MBDA press release, Brimstone missiles are going to be produced (under licence?) in Poland.

A few days ago Polish MOD signed a deal with one of our companies, for the delivery of reconnaissance and strike drones. Said UAVs will form the backbone of the so-called "Gladius" system https://tvn24.pl/tvn24-news-in-english/poland-purchases-more-unmanned-search-and-strike-drone-systems-5701114. "Gladius" will be presumably based on WB Group W2MPIR system https://defence24.com/w2mpir-a2ad-elimination-tool-by-the-wb-group although with some modifications and tailoring to meet the needs of MOD. What is interesting, is that it will be fielded under the command of our artillery regiments, with its main goal being to strike high value and temporarily available targets while providing accurate information for artillery systems.

I wouldn't call it a plan. There are talks that the polish defence sector is cooperating with US manufacturers to create such a facility in Poland, but there is no hard proof. At this time, there are no signed arrangements, so nobody knows who will be providing maintenance and repair for our Abrams tanks. In the best-case scenario, the facility should be part of the Polish Armaments Group presumably located in Bumar (former T-family tanks factory) or WZM (Leopard maintenance facility), in the worst-case scenario, there will be no such facility in Poland or (slightly better scenario) it will be a facility owned by GDLS. So basically, the future holds the answer.

We are trying hard to compete with the British MOD

I agree with you. In my oppinion Poland is stuck with Abrams for good, and it will eventually become our only MBT. But to be fair, there is still a lot of talk about K2 and K2PL in Poland, including military journalists and some politicians. The vice minister of defence talked, in today's article, about talks, that are held with Hyundai considering the aquasition of K2.

Pics of Moscow before sinking.

If one wishes to join Discord, one must have had a sufficient number of posts on the forum website.

How effective can it be?

This war is peculiar https://twitter.com/ArmedForcesUkr/status/1498249867054960641?s=20&t=W3cOSQQx6MfMog01dVuD0w

For anyone interested, here is a great piece, written in polish, about Borsuk (Badger) IFV armour protection - estimated. https://2s14.blogspot.com/2021/12/inzynieria-pancerzy-cz-1-jak-chroniony.html?m=1 The article was written by @Zadlo In the article, it is estimated, that Borsuk (Badger) IFV should be capable of protecting against 3UBR6 (30x165) projectile.

https://twitter.com/PGZ_pl/status/1488814555195133952?s=20&t=nNxdreuDEBCcYCtsOVPaXQ Poland is offering its new IFV "Badger" (Borsuk) to Slovakia. In my opinion, the chances of wining the bid are slim, to say the least. The competition in itself should be interesting, especially as the Borsuk IFV is the lightest of all offered vehicles, and has the capability to swim.

For anyone interested, here are two PDFs about the potential development of a "silent" mortar projectile that is meant to be used with standard 60mm infantry mortars. CONCEPTION OF “SILENT” MORTAR PROJECTILE PART 1 CONCEPTION OF “SILENT” MORTAR PROJECTILE PART 2

New video from PGZ showing some of their VSHORAD systems (Poprad and Pilica being already in service). https://twitter.com/PGZ_pl/status/1428991771355320330?s=20

The tanks of the Polish Armed Forces are not the most modern ones, I have to agree with that, yet they are still adequate for our needs. And of course, Abrams is a superb vehicle. In itself it is not a "bad buy", but when put into perspective, it's pretty clear that it doesn't necessarily correspond to our needs. Our mechanized forces are using the BMP-1 IFV, air defence is compromised of SA-3, SA-6, SA-8 and SA-5, and the Navy is also in a dire situation with only two "Perry" frigates being, in theory, able to provide some other air defence than 23mm guns and MANPADs. In the aforementioned sectors, the acquisition of new equipment and systems is already delayed, and with additional money being spent on Abrams, it seems we will have to delay programs such as "Narew" - new AD, "Miecznik" - new frigates, even further. At the same time we just recently started to refurbish and modify our old T-72M/M1 to a new M1R variant, and although modernization of Leo2A4 is moving rather slowly, it is still something. So yes, Abrams is a great tank but the whole acquisition comes completely out of the blue. Lastly, with the acquisition of Abrams, the prospects for our tank production sector is dim, to say the least, as currently, there is no information about the participation of Polish industry in the process of maintenance not even mentioning production. This is sad as we exported our last tanks only 14 years ago and still have necessarily capabilities, no to build a great vehicle of course, but a good enough one.

With all due respect, I cannot agree. Taking into account the current state of the Polish Navy, mechanized force or even air defence, I would argue that in those sectors, Poland has many more pressing issues. The acquisition of Abrams tanks, or any other tank, is not the most needed one right now. To put it simply, Poland does not require additional tanks, not in the first place at least. The whole situation is also rather unexpected, especially if we were to look upon the current "technical modernization plan", in which the "Wilk" program - new MBT, is meant to be procured after 2025.

Well, it is now official; https://www.gov.pl/web/obrona-narodowa/czolgi-abrams-dla-sil-zbrojnych-rp. Poland will acquire M1A2 Sepv3. Abrams tanks, more information is to be given by the Minister of National Defence, tomorrow morning. I wasn't sure if this info should be posted here or in the "United States Military Vehicle General: Guns, G*vins, and Gas Turbines" thread.

If anyone is interested in reading the original text, on which the DefenseNews invokes, it can be found here: https://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/7,114883,27291593,bez-planu-bez-trybu-ale-z-usa-szykuje-sie-kolejny-zakup-na.html

@TINDALOS the inscription on the rocket says "MAKIETA", which in Polish means "MODEL/MOCKUP". The actual name of the ATGM is "Pirat" - "Pirate", and it is based on the RK-3, with the main differences lying in the internal components and guidance. Here is a good summary of the ATGM, although it is written in polish.