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Sturgeon's House

More Canadian Procurement Fail.


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One more reason for me to hate on the Conservatives and their ongoing and massive defense procurement fuckups.


To be fair, the Chilean Navy was pretty hardcore in the late 19th/very early 20th century.

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Word on the street is that the liberals want to axe the f-35

Word on the street here, almost everyone who knows much about Canada's defense needs wants to axe the F-35.  Honestly, if we're in a big enough fight where the F-35s stealth characteristics are needed, we're gonna be fighting along with the US and they will have taken out the triple a and most of the big SAMs already. Most of our patrolling is NATO based or Canadian airspace enforcement.  The odd time we're doing actual combat is generally as a coalition or with at least the US and Britain.


After that almost any of the 4th/4/5 gen fighters would do the job with a real preference for something with long range that can carry a decent # of AAMs. Either the F-18E/F or one of the new Eagle variants would do just fine from US products, and I suspect the Rafale and Typhoon and mebbe even the Gripen to contend. I strongly suspect that if we don't get the F-35 in the end anyway (Strongest probability in the end) we'll end up going with the SuperHornet.  Political realities being what they are, Northrop Grumman needs the orders.

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First stages of the bidding process for CPF/ADD replacements.


Results of pre-qualification process for Canadian Surface Combatant

Public Services and Procurement Canada announced on November 18, 2015 the results of the pre-qualification process, the first step in the competitive procurement process to select a Combat Systems Integrator and a Warship Designer for the Canadian Surface Combatant (CSC).

For the Combat Systems Integrator, the pre-qualified firms are:

  • Atlas Elektronik GmbH
  • Lockheed Martin Canada
  • Saab Australia Pty Ltd.
  • Selex ES S.p.A.
  • Thales Nederland B.V.
  • ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems GmbH

For the Warship Designer, the pre-qualified firms are:

  • Alion-JJMA Corp.
  • BAE Systems Surface Ships Limited
  • Fincantieri S.p.A. Naval Vessels Business Unit
  • Navantia SA
  • Odense Maritime Technology
  • ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems GmbH

The next step in the CSC procurement process calls for industry engagement sessions between Canada, Irving Shipbuilding (as the CSC Prime Contractor) and the pre-qualified firms to develop the Request for Proposals documents. The outcome of these competitive solicitations will be the selection of a Combat Systems Integrator and a Warship Designer who will become first-tier subcontractors to Irving Shipbuilding for the CSC Definition Contract, through which the CSC design will be developed to a production-ready state. The Definition Contract should be awarded to Irving Shipbuilding by early 2017






Current RumInt is that requirements mean that it is a  6000 ton design with 32-48 VLS cells and good hangar space.  Nothing more concrete than that.

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Changes coming under the new defence minister.


Liberals alter course on frigate replacement and rely on foreign design

OTTAWA — The Trudeau government has quietly revised the framework for the navy's planned frigate replacement program, opting for a proven foreign design over a custom domestic blueprint.

Defence contractors were given details of the proposal on Tuesday, which is subject to industry feedback and final approval, expected later this year.

Lisa Campbell, the assistant deputy minister in the acquisitions branch at Public Services and Procurement Canada, said an evaluation has determined that there are existing warship designs that would meet Canadian needs and deciding to go in that direction "was a big step for us."

Commodore Art MacDonald said the navy has also refined its requirements for the advanced warships, on which Irving Shipbuilding in Halifax is expected to begin construction some time around 2020.

In addition, the federal government will run only one competition for building both the ship and installing the sophisticated electronics, instead of doing it separately, as originally planned.

Campbell said those decisions will help not only speed up the shipbuilding process, which has been proceeding at a glacial pace, but could help control costs down the road.

When originally conceived, the Harper government estimated the cost of building 15 warships would be in the range of $26 billion, but internal documents and published reports last fall suggested the price tag could go as high as $40 billion.

Relying on a proven, off-the-shelf warship design from another country takes a lot of the uncertainty out of the planning process, Campbell said.

"We don't know the actual cost per ship yet," she said in an interview. "We're not talking about a custom build anymore. We're talking about existing designs .... and in our view that is likely to have an impact on diminishing all sorts of risks."

There would be, however, some modifications to the design to suit unique Canadian requirements. The process is not unlike the one followed when the Harper government selected a German design for the navy's soon-to-be-built joint supply ships.

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The Liberals have said they can’t provide Parliament with a schedule for the delivery of the supply ships or the icebreaker because they deem such information secret.


Ha, governments are allowed to call information secret if it'd embarrass them.


How on earth is it costing $60bn? That's more than twice what britain is paying for T26 (£8bn for 8, you'd think economies of scale would push the canuck cost down)

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Canada might be walking back the Type 26 purchase; https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/feds-ordered-to-postpone-award-of-60b-warship-contract-because-of-allegations-the-ship-they-want-to-buy-cant-meet-the-navys-requirements


A federal trade tribunal has ordered the government to put a $60-billion program to buy a new fleet of warships on hold while it investigates claims the vessel selected doesn’t meet the military’s needs.

Last month, the federal government and Irving Shipbuilding selected Lockheed Martin Canada as the preferred bidder for the Canadian Surface Combatant program. Lockheed Martin had teamed with British firm BAE to propose providing Canada with 15 of BAE’s Type 26 frigates.

But Alion, a U.S. firm that also submitted a bid on the project, contends the Type 26 can’t meet the Canadian navy’s stated requirements and filed a complaint with the Canadian International Trade Tribunal (CITT).



Several European shipbuilders decided against submitting bids for the $60-billion project because of concerns about the fairness of the process.

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8 hours ago, Proyas said:

Why doesn't Canada just buy Arleigh-Burke destroyers from the U.S.? 

Not gonna happen. License build here in Canada? Maybe... but very highly unlikely.  And the early flight Burkes didn't have hangar space, which was pretty much viewed as essential.


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13 hours ago, Belesarius said:

Not gonna happen. License build here in Canada? Maybe... but very highly unlikely.  And the early flight Burkes didn't have hangar space, which was pretty much viewed as essential.


Canada could buy newly-constructed Arleigh-Burke destroyers made in the U.S. The bigger the orders, the more that economies of scale lower the individual costs. 

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