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Toledo Steel vs Weeaboo Steel

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This is also why swords tended to be talked about a lot and preserved - they're expensive to make and take immense skill to make well. So they get to be status symbols even where they are not particularly more effective than other weapons (cue this argument again).

 

I think that's true, but swords are rather more capable and versatile than other weapons. Were I facing someone in a duel with hand weapons, I certainly would want a nice long sword like a rapier, rather than an axe or mace or other kind of medium-length hand weapon. Of course, this paradigm changes if the other guy is in armor, or if I'm in armor, but swords are still really useful against dudes in armor, so...

The flip side of the argument you just made is that if swords weren't worth all that time and effort to make, no one would have made them.

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This is also why swords tended to be talked about a lot and preserved - they're expensive to make and take immense skill to make well. So they get to be status symbols even where they are not particularly more effective than other weapons (cue this argument again).

That's somewhat true in China.

Straight swords were a status symbol back in China, mostly worn by scholars and nobility. Broadswords were certainly more effective but when they were worn, they were worn pretty much only for practical purposes mostly by guards.

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A swords degree of usefulness is dependent on what your opponent is wearing.

 

You'd be surprised how quickly you can disarm or bind a sword with a bearded axe or how quickly I can stick a one handed spear in your pumpkin. 

 

The benefits of axes and spears is the level of training a soldier needs to be effective in battle. 

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A swords degree of usefulness is dependent on what your opponent is wearing.

 

You'd be surprised how quickly you can disarm or bind a sword with a bearded axe or how quickly I can stick a one handed spear in your pumpkin. 

 

The benefits of axes and spears is the level of training a soldier needs to be effective in battle. 

 

Hmmm, you're not the only guy here who's done a little HEMA. ;) Yeah, other weapons have their uses, but I'd pick the sword for overall usefulness. Of course, just having a sword doesn't make you a match for a more skilled opponent, but if you're skilled a sword has probably the broadest range of techniques available to it, plus if it's something like a rapier, great range and speed.

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I wouldn't want to face an armored opponent using a rapier, you would have to be exceptionally skilled to get into the squishy vulnerable bits. I'd definitely want something like that for dueling or unarmored street fighting though.   

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I wouldn't want to face an armored opponent using a rapier, you would have to be exceptionally skilled to get into the squishy vulnerable bits. I'd definitely want something like that for dueling or unarmored street fighting though.   

 

Oh yeah, absolutely. A rapier would be a shitty choice for that. Against an armored opponent I'd want a mace and rondel, or at least a longsword.

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I'd take something rapier-y just because it's the only melee weapon I've had training with besides knives.

Mostly, though, I'd just want to have more buddies than the other guys, and as much protection as I could comfortably run in. The element of surprise would also be way ahead of specific equipment wishes.

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I have no experience with rapiers but I am assuming much of the I.33 wards I know using arming swords and buckler would apply in much the same way. I can run 'maybe' 100 yards at dead sprint in full kit but I can fight for a very long time. Of course I train about 10 hours a week and work out every day so that helps. 

 

My full fighting kit includes pants, a linen under tunic, a linen or wool over tunic, pouch, belt, a padded leather gambeson, a mail shirt, lamellar, spangenhelm, broadsword, seax, hand axe, Danish axe or 8' spear and a 34 round shield. Funny thing is, it's not a whole lot more than what I carried as soldier in the 20th century. 

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Isn't Man at Arms the guy who takes a block of monosteel, cuts it out, grinds it, then calls himself a "swordsmith"?

I have no problem with making replica sword that way (it the only way to do it inexpensively and still get a decent sword) but I always felt that show made it feel more pretentious than it should.

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Isn't Man at Arms the guy who takes a block of monosteel, cuts it out, grinds it, then calls himself a "swordsmith"?

I have no problem with making replica sword that way (it the only way to do it inexpensively and still get a decent sword) but I always felt that show made it feel more pretentious than it should.

Reforged uses a different bunch - much more craftsmanship overall.

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Didn't watch the second one, I take it :)

 

I just started it. Much better, but I'm groaning a little bit at how it was the weebs who got them to do more traditional stuff.

Oh well. 

I can't remember which documentary it is on YouTube, probably one of the two below, but it had a good segment on how katanas are made.

 

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I was chatting with a buddy about this: katanas just bring out the worst weeaboo billshit.

My take is that (in addition to Japan uber alles bullshit) they're one of the beneficiaries of the last gasp pre-internet hype that would attach itself to exotic orientalism. Kung fu being the other prime example.

My friend holds that 'sturmgewehr' is just a German euphemism for 'engorged penis'.

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There were oversized versions of these in China called zhanmadao/horse cutters which were used as a formation weapon, where elite troops stood in ranks, several deep and did nothing but chop down and back up like a meat-grinder and were used as anti-cavalry and shock troops. They were later dropped because the troops were incredibly hard and expensive to train. The Japanese version, the no-dachi and the o-dachi were ceremonial weapons I believe.

 

Overall, swords like that were dropped in China after the Tang Dynasty around 900AD because they were expensive to make, hard to maintain and near impossible to repair and were getting obsolete with newer armor. For the troops that were armed with those swords, they were generally replaced with blunt weapons and policemen/guards replaced them with broadswords again because they were much, much cheaper and don't generally need to get through armor.

 

It's almost surprising that the katana style swords were in use for ~1000 years.

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I was chatting with a buddy about this: katanas just bring out the worst weeaboo billshit.

My take is that (in addition to Japan uber alles bullshit) they're one of the beneficiaries of the last gasp pre-internet hype that would attach itself to exotic orientalism. Kung fu being the other prime example.

My friend holds that 'sturmgewehr' is just a German euphemism for 'engorged penis'.

 

They're actually interesting swords, so it's a shame they've become pop culture icons to the degree that there's an endless font of nonsense said about them.

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As has been mentioned before, nuanced assassments hold no place in these gear arguments where if it ain't the best, it's the worst.

The only real katanas I've ever held were WW2 bring backs and I've only ever seen the "real" ones in a museum. They seem to be good sabre-like weapons which were quite dandy for instilling terror among the feudal peasants growing rice and catching fish.

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I was chatting with a buddy about this: katanas just bring out the worst weeaboo billshit.

My take is that (in addition to Japan uber alles bullshit) they're one of the beneficiaries of the last gasp pre-internet hype that would attach itself to exotic orientalism. Kung fu being the other prime example.

My friend holds that 'sturmgewehr' is just a German euphemism for 'engorged penis'.

 

A sturmgewehr is what you use to compensate for a zündnadelgewehr.

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Speaking of ceremonial weapons let's talk about blessed swords:

riaguSl.jpg

Blessed_Sword_and_Hat_of_Manuel_Pinto.PN

 

 

Not only are they extremely beautiful works of arts, they are to my knowledge at the length of 7 feet the longest swords manufactured by Europe.

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