Militarysta

Ok, so I should correct this tabel in case M833, Mathos proofs convinced me.

How about DM13 and DM23?

@Methos?

BTW - Im not sure DM-13. In green book (Bauman 2006 Moscow) is 220mm/60@ but IMHO it could be overestimated. From the other side - some other polish Autors found  in british archves that "unkown" german 120mm KE was able to penetrate 450mm steel from 1km in late 70's... so maybe..

My resume that what we known (or not) on one picture:

8 minutes ago, Wiedzmin said:

looks stange. if aramid/fiberglass for upper engine deck - heat(IR signature) and antispall protection it's ok, but lower hull front is it same plate or steel ? and if so why hull side(lower part) doesn't get any addon armour ?

No idea, on polish side (factory) it's totall ban for photos and talks about this armour. What is again nonsense couse there are open public reserchees papers whit simmilar solutions for light APC But OK, no talk at all

1 hour ago, Toimisto said:

Well, as they are on imgur i cannot remove them, the offended party should contact imgur staff to remove the image gallery.

Ok, it's not my problem to be honest.  As  I know finish MoD want's to not public armor photos before whole delivery will be ended but somebody on finish exibition day just make photos ant put it in to net. And now is hot phone between factory and MoD who put this in public. Even funny, but for example in Poland posting this photos can be very problemfull, despite fact that they are "somwehere" on the net.

Ceramic tiles on aramid fibers. More or less this BMP-2FIN is higly immune to 30mm 2A42 whit 3UBR10

@Wiedzmin

1984, Leopard 2 in soviet report:

As we can see - Soviet assume Leopard 2 armour in 1984 on 400-450mm vs KE and 550-600mm vs HEAT

6 hours ago, Toimisto said:

Some pictures of BMP-2FIN hull add-on armor: https://imgur.com/a/28O2hBE

Sorry but polish manufacurer this armour is fucken angry about those photo in net. Can You erase it before polish Lubawa SA will contackt your local gestapo?

Regards,

J.

ps. anyway the problem is about your MoD not polish manufacurer, but still - this photos made some peoples mad

12 hours ago, Bronezhilet said:

Couple of options here:

1. It's a third charge for extra penetration

1. Third charge for extra penetration

Could be simple an extra charge crammed in the shell go get a little bit of extra penetration of the whole package. All other Soviet/Russian HEAT shells have quite a bit of empty room behind the main charge, they could have just simply thrown in an extra charge. It's a low angle (or high, depending on how you look at it) shaped charge to fit through the hole the main charge made. Point against this option is that it has to penetrate (part of) the slug the main charge left behind, so the added penetration is anyone's guess.

I can explain a lot here ;-)

3BM31 and 3BK31M was attempd to incarase penetration in HEAT round without changing working method of cumulative warhed. Now in west we have SC whit 10-12 and even mor CD penetration. In the end of the 80's it was impossible so choosen operation method was diffrend.

Precursor in BK31M is just normal  precursor - nothing to do here exept that in some sources this precursor have abilitiest to work like in HOT3/PARS so beeing lunched in to target before main round part had optimum stand-off distance. In  other - just slinding to have bigger distance.

Main charge - here is funny - axuilary cone (second charge) was to just incarase armour penetration. This SC was ignit first and milisecond after ignit was first (main) SC - two jets where joined together and become one long "super jet". Wery sophisticated idea but dead end.

Just googled pdf:

23 RD INTERNATIONAL SYMPOSIUM ON BALLISTICS
TARRAGONA, SPAIN 16-20 APRIL 2007
STUDY ON TANDEM SHAPED CHARGES TECHNIQUE
Huang zhengxiang 1 , Zhang xianfeng

On 6/10/2018 at 8:19 AM, Vicious_CB said:

Interesting, is it a manually set fuse? If so I guess that means airburst is out of the question since I dont see a range dial. Ive never heard of Mesko, guess they wanted to buy domestic since the 120mm HE-T from NAMMO offers the exact same capability with a 2-mode manually set fuse. And its already been tested on the Leopard 2

Polish Pz.511 HE 120mm is orginally polish ammo - developed since 2002. Basicly it's...recalibrated 125mm OF-19 new unitary catrige.

Indeed polish industru is looking for programable upgreade of the Pz.511. The problem is that all best solutions are secure by patents.

BTW: Polish :Leopard 2PL  will have german programable munition standard - the same as for DM-11.

How in one APS take together all the worse parts from Drozd and Arena APS?

Hello in Poland and it's military industry!

https://www.facebook.com/wojskoitechnika/videos/1749447418443845/

http://militarium.net/polski-zintegrowany-automatyczny-system-obrony-pojazdu-koncepcja-aktywnej-obrony-wozow-bojowych/

thanks God this project was closed.

@UP

Yep, propably You have right.

Old Cenrex page:

http://cenrex.home.pl/polska/index.php/oslony-balistyczne/52-dopancerzenie

Give us a little details:

Osłona przedziału kierowcy (Aditiona Driver comparment armor)

• 130 mm grubości (thickens)
• 1.3 m² (area)
• śr. waga 340 kg (1,3m²) (weight)
• osłona: protection
  • level IV STANAG
  • RPG (głowica PG-7V)
• odpowiednik 330mm RHA (only for armour module not hull included)
• brak penetracji kadłuba właściwego (no penetration main armour)
• pozwala zrezygnować z osłony siatkowej (could be RPGnet  withdrawn)
• nie przesłania widoku kierowcy (good driver field of view)
• odporna na zniszczenia
• łatwa wymiana w warunkach polowych
• kompozytowa – nie ceramiczna composite - NOT ceramics
• odporna na  wiele trafień (multihit capabilities)

Turret armour/ hull sides armour:

• 40mm grubości (thickness)
• 82 kg/m²
• osłona: Level IV STANAG (14,5mm API)      
• dodatkowa osłona montowana na pancerzu wieżyczki LEVEL II
• przeciwdziała zniszczeniu wieżyczki
• odporna na zniszczenia
• łatwa wymiana w warunkach polowych
• kompozytowa – ceramika, szkło, aluminium, aramid composite - cermics, glass, aluminium, aramid
• odporna na  wiele trafień (multihit capabilities)

SPz Puma.

NERA, NxRA everywhere....

Serial (not uparmoured Rosomak) after RPG hit in hull side:

No KIA, suprise but no WIA too...

And serial APC Rosomak side hull armour:

slopped at 9@

Armour compositon from external side: 10mm Armox 500T plate+ air gap 75mm + 10mm Armox 500T plate + 8mm Armox 500T plate

Later in Afganistan almoust all Rosomak was uparmoured whit Mikanit armour for front hull and turret sides and whit RPG-net for hull sides. 

Well known APC Rosomak in Afgan. version armour:

Orginally it was israeli but after that it was produced by polish company "Mikanit":

http://www.mikanit.com.pl/produkty/oslony-balistyczne.html

Now, we know patent draws and description:

Composition:

2 mm HHS + air + 6,7 mm HHS + 5 mm composite + 5 mm composite + 5 mm composite + 3,5 mm HHS + 35 mm air gap + 3,5 mm HHS + 5 mm composite + 5 mm composite + 3,5 mm HHS + 35 mm air gap  + 20 mm aluminium + 5 mm aluminium.

There is possibility that layout could be 4+3 (composite) and single composite layer can have up to 6mm thick and single HHS layer can have  4mm thickness. Layers can be separate up to 45mm.

Accoding to manufacurer this armour can protect against ATGM and RPG's up to 500mm RHA penetration.

Whole armour is combat proven in Afganistan - there are known some "Rosomak" whit 3x RPG's hits diretly in to this armour - no penetration at all, no engine damage. 

Welcome back - this time whit cool viedeos:

Polish paratroopers and SaberStrike whit US Forces - next worth to see video

And Char Leclerc:

https://i.imgur.com/JQw46Ax.png

SPz Puma:

https://imgur.com/kFavxhH

https://i.imgur.com/kFavxhH.mp4

WBG-X in 2A4 and dozen of targets - BMP-2, M113, T-72M1, M2,  etc:

hope links will work:

https://www.facebook.com/wolskijaroslaw/videos/1617304508320050/

https://www.facebook.com/wolskijaroslaw/videos/1617306768319824/

https://www.facebook.com/wolskijaroslaw/videos/1617307538319747/

https://www.facebook.com/wolskijaroslaw/videos/1617307884986379/

https://www.facebook.com/wolskijaroslaw/videos/1617307918319709/

https://www.facebook.com/wolskijaroslaw/videos/1617307981653036/

https://www.facebook.com/wolskijaroslaw/videos/1617308018319699/

https://www.facebook.com/wolskijaroslaw/videos/1617310461652788/

https://www.facebook.com/wolskijaroslaw/videos/1617310528319448/

https://www.facebook.com/wolskijaroslaw/videos/1617310638319437/

https://www.facebook.com/wolskijaroslaw/videos/1617310688319432/

https://www.facebook.com/wolskijaroslaw/videos/1617310741652760/

https://www.facebook.com/wolskijaroslaw/videos/1617310794986088/

https://www.facebook.com/wolskijaroslaw/videos/1617310928319408/

https://www.facebook.com/wolskijaroslaw/videos/1617311951652639/

https://www.facebook.com/wolskijaroslaw/videos/1617312021652632/

https://www.facebook.com/wolskijaroslaw/videos/1617312088319292/

Orginally polish second generation 120mm APFSDS-T ammo:

The designing of a new kinetic energy projectile for LEOPARD 2 tank 120 mm gun started in 2016. Development of a new kinetic energy projectile with a penetrator of boosted efficiency (by ca. 20% than currently manufactured ammunition) for piercing the RHA plate was the main goal of the project.  New generations of tungsten based

sinters with better mechanical characteristics were used to prepare the new design of the kinetic energy projectile, having a lower diameter and a length increased by
ca. 100 mm in comparison with projectiles currently manufactured and supplied to the army, under the procurement contracts for 2014-2017.

(...)

 terminal ballistics show that penetration depth of RHA plate is above 600 mm for the distance of 2000 m

53 minutes ago, That_Baka said:

@LoooSeR

Is there any info on composition of T-80U armour array and protection of UFP.

Yes, a lot of.

firstly here:

http://btvt.info/1inservice/t-80u.htm

second - here:

http://btvt.info/3attackdefensemobility/armor.htm

Second - just ask.

3 hours ago, Laviduce said:

Update with corrections:

 

 

Whit KE I can agree - IMHO it's more or less correct.

But IMHO - CE value is mistaken. I will explain why - even erly Burlington armour give protection circa as 1 (in compare to the same weight) RHA block agains APDS and after APFSDS and 2 (in compare to the same weight) RHA block agains HEAT. Of cource we can discuss it this ratio is insluding backplate and frontplate or for same "special armour" itself but more or less - HEAT protectio will be mucht bigger then you marked.

I propose to not break open door and just copied KE/CE ratio from well known M1 Abrams from 1982 - the same armour orgins, teh same year itp:

400mm vs KE

750mm vs CE

ratio: 1,875

And finnal it should looks like this:

32 minutes ago, Laviduce said:

 

Thank you for the feedback, Militarysta. Using the Hilmes drawings i came to about 30 mm at around 8 degrees from the horizontal. Looking at the Leopard 2K drawings , i see that the plate is 35 mm thick at 8 degrees from the horizontal. I think quite a few things were taken over from those early prototypes and i think this might be one of those features. Given this, i will adjust the estimate for this area to around 215 - 250 mm.  

IMHO there is no need to use draws ;-)

I had masured it by my own hands:

Hatch:

Upper glastic plate is the same.

So 30mm at 8 = 215mm RHA

The bigger problem is whit turret roof but it's propably  the same.

Very nice job, but IMHO there is one small mistake:

Upper hull plate is no lees then 30mm RHA - the same as turret roof. So both have the same protection.

Accoding to Bumar-Łabędy it was serial in PT-91M Pendakar (Malaj), so rather the change was introduced. Whad more - CAWA-2 armour was tested for never build PT-97 and "Gorilla" tank. And it was tested and "finnal" product - for welded turret and PT-91MZ Hull. Again - the only  one question is about technology change in cast turret whit CAWA-2 inserts. Even Phds Wiśniewski mentioned this in his book:

BTW - accoding to Bumar-Łabendy PT-91M (Malaj) have for 30. degree slighty up then 500mm vs APFSDS-T -it's impossible whit old kwarz filter.

And as You know - its pointless to melt HHS plate in turret during casting. So fairytails or..change armour