Laser Shark

27 minutes ago, Xoon said:

Won't having two different platforms cost more in the long run? 

In the very long term, you might end up saving money by standardizing on a single platform, yes, but if you’re trying to pitch this idea to the politicians, they’re going to be less interested in the notion that it will be less expensive in 30-40 years from now than the fact that they’d have to make space/ find additional billions of NOK for such an acquisition in the current budget.

1 hour ago, Xoon said:

Why not use the CV90 as a platform instead? 

I can imagine that the shape and layout of the ACSV (and the M113 design) might lend itself more favorably for a configuration seen in the image. You probably won't have that much space left in a CV90 with its lower hull and well sloped glacis plate if you cut away that much of the  superstructure. That said, for the EW variant you probably could use the CV90 Mk I hull  as is, and if it's somehow possible to put the launcher and radar on top of the hull , it could also take over the SHORAD role. Since Norway still has about 30 or so of these hulls sitting around  afaik, it might not be that much more expensive either.

On the other hand, the ACSV based vehicles are almost certainly going to be lighter and cheaper to operate than a CV90 based variant, and since the Norwegian Army were probably going to have to order a number of these vehicles anyway (for the reasons stated above, otherwise you'd not only have to buy more CV90s, but probably also ask Hägglunds to redesign the CV90 for those roles, and that would be very expensive), it might have made more sense to just opt for more ACSVs.

Posted A minute ago

Having looked at the ACSV image for a while, I now wonder how much of the old M113 is actually left in this design. The suspension seems to be ripped from the G5 (I did not notice this initially), and the hull/superstructure looks different enough from the M113 that it probably has to be built from scratch.

What was initially intended to be a stretched M113 might have turned into a new vehicle from the looks of it. I guess we'll be able to tell for certain once the completed prototype is revealed.

FFG Flensburger Fahrzeugbau Gesellschaft has won the contract on the production of 75-150 Armoured Combat Support Vehicles (AGSV) for the Norwegian Army.This vehicle was originally called M113F4, and was pretty much an elongated M113F3 with a shorter superstructure to allow for various types of modules to be fitted in the back (similar to the Australian M113AS4), such as an Arthur artillery hunting radar module, a SHORAD module with a launch unit for IRIS-T missiles + a multi function radar, and a logistics variant with a 10 foot ISO container. In addition, there is supposed to be an electronic warfare variant that has a full superstructure.

An earlier computer model by KDA showing how a new SHORAD vehicle based on the M113F4 could look like.

Rather than let the Army’s workshop in Bjerkvik handle the production of these vehicle as has been the case in the past, they decided to outsource the production to FFG. IMO this makes sense considering that there is an urgent demand for these vehicles, especially the SHORAD variant, and the earlier Project 5026 ended up being completed way behind schedule. In any case, Bjerkvik will probably get some work anyway since FFG is also delivering additional upgrade kits to bring M113A2/M577A2 up to F3 level, in addition to the new ACSVs. Speaking of which, it also seems like FFG has made a lot of changes to the original M113F4 design, and it now appears to be more similar to their PMMV G5.

The new Armoured Combat Support Vehicle.

FFG is having success in Norway these days. In addition to this contract, they're also producing 6 Leopard 2 based Wisent 2 ARVs for the Norwegian Army, and will probably receive an order for 6 more in the AEV configuration to replace the Leopard 1 based NM189 INGPVs.

The delivery of the first Wisent 2 to the Norwegian Army happened in September last year.

With the introduction of the new K9 Thunder SPG and BONUS anti armour munition, the Norwegian Army finally has the tools it needs to defeat the Wehrmacht:

Norwegian article with more K9 footage: https://forsvaret.no/aktuelt/her-er-k9-thunder

On 5/2/2018 at 8:29 AM, SH_MM said:

I am fairly certain the quoted contract price for the Estonian CV90s is wrong. 625,000 Euro might be the cost per CV90 hull.

I would not be surprised if that's all they paid us tbh. We  have a long history of donating surplus equipment to the Baltic countries (they pretty much only have to pay for the shipping), and Norway had no plans for these MkI hulls, so if they weren't sold off, their fate would probably be to sit in some storage building in Bjerkvik or be scrapped. Also, the best MkI hulls have already been converted to CV90 STING and CV90RWS Multi BK, so the remaining ones might have been in pretty poor condition, meaning more expenses for the Estonians besides the costs of converting them to support vehicles.

2 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

   Best kind of psyops our MoD managed to do is to write "For Paris" on one bomb after certain events in Paris. Also, aren't those guys neo-nazis? That would be kind of very bad psy ops to work with that kind of humans.

This is just pure speculation on my part, but one could’ve faked a story about a Scandinavian unit kicking ass in Syria to tempt other far right members to travel down there. Neo Nazis are scum of the earth. Scum of the earth who happens to love war and killing, and it's because of that that they could potentially make for some pretty decent cannon fodder in Syria, provided you can control them, of course. No one in Scandinavia cares if these people end up dead, and more importantly, no one in Russia cares if these people end up dead, which means less crying mothers taking to the street to protest the war. And even if they do end up surviving the fighting, then they aren't your problem anymore anyway. They’re the problem of their home countries who now have to keep an even closer eye on them as they represent a much larger threat than they did before (and it would be another way for Russia to stick it to the countries that are currently placing sanctions on it).

Come to think of it, the above also works if it's a true story (or if there is some semblance of truth to it at least).

The biggest drawback of this, however, is as you've pointed out that it's very bad PR (though maybe not as bad as it should be since people didn't really seem to care THAT much about it during the Ukraine conflict) to be associated with such people, and if this was indeed a real thing, then it looks like they've done an extremely good job at keeping it under the radar since the anonymous interview and those photos are really the only "evidence" we have that this unit even existed. The fact that the interview was originally published on a relatively obscure far right website could also suggest that it might never have been intended to spread outside of that community if it was a controlled leak or made up story.

But again, this is just pure speculation.

2 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

https://www.aldrimer.no/nordmenn-kjempet-pa-russisk-side-i-syria/

Claims that those guys were under our command in Syria

Since I'm lazy I'm just gonna quote myself from yesterday when this image was posted on r/militaryporn:

"Some context since the OP contains very little information:

The defence and security news site, «Aldrimer», recently reported on an interview that had been published on the Swedish far right website «Skandinavisk frihet». In this interview, a man claimed to have served in a unit of Scandinavian volunteers called «Þorbrandr», and that this unit had been fighting for the Russians in Syria during the winter, spring and summer of 2017. The Norwegian flag was apparently the unit insignia, and its commander a Norwegian man who went under the nickname «Norðmaður».

The full Aldrimer article with more details and photos (just try your luck with google translate or another translate function): https://www.aldrimer.no/nordmenn-kjempet-pa-russisk-side-i-syria/

Now, if this was something that actually happened or just some Russian psyops shenanigans at work, I do not know..."

I guess they'll want adjustable gas blocks on the additional 15 000 M27s they’re buying, and if they’re doing that they might as well ask HK to modify the current ones as well...?

The "new" M38 (originally posted on the HkPro forum):

More info on the new VBCI for Qatar:

MCT-30 has been redesigned, and it now includes a dual launcher for MMP missiles in the rear. Looks a hell of a lot better than previous attempts at integrating ATMGs into this turret IMO.

18 hours ago, Scolopax said:

 

The camo there looks decidedly Chinese.

Surprised you didn't say Nordic as patterns similar to that one have been a common sight on Norwegian, Swedish and Finnish vehicles for years now. (In Norway's case it was introduced already in the late 80s, and even though plain green has been slowly taking over since the early 2000s, it's still around).

But anyway, love to see the M8 making comeback. Looks wicked.

15 hours ago, Ramlaen said:

BAE ACV1.1 with a 30x113mm and Javelin armed RWS.

Protector RWS LW-30:

"The PROTECTOR RWS-LW30 is an extension of the existing PROTECTOR RWS Family providing enhanced operational capability by use of a 30mm canon. In additional to the powerful M230LF 30mm canon as a main weapon, the PROTECTOR RWS-LW30 offer modularity for single weapon, dual weapon and even triple weapon configuration where the M230LF main weapon, 7.62mm coax weapon and a Javelin ATM can be installed simultaneously. The versatile system architecture enables support for future integrations such as Stinger missile or other effectors."

 https://www.truppendienst.com/themen/beitraege/artikel/up-gunning-stryker-and-oshkosh-jltv/

6 hours ago, Xoon said:

Just a few gifs from Forsvaret:

Note the odd 5th roadwheel. 

 

What's odd about it? Most of the desert tan paint has come off, revealing the standard green color underneath, but otherwise it looks normal to me.

To complement what @SH_MM  wrote above me, there is a barrel camera below the main gun, and a Kongsberg Infrared Aim Laser (also seen on the Protector MPU/Nordic) on the right side.

Norwegian Army CV9030N MkIII outfitted with SAAB Barracuda Mobile Camouflage System, November 2017.

15 minutes ago, SH_MM said:

 

As you can see in one of the earlier pictures of a 2A5DK tank, this "barrel extension" is fitted during training sometimes and probably is part of the gun-firing simulator equipment.

Perhaps the barrel extension is some kind of coax flash hider? (The M1 has something like that)

39 minutes ago, Willy Brandt said:

Makes sense. Any info on what are the upgrades of the A7DK?

Also what about the Coax MG? is it still a MG3?

Yes, the coax is still an MG3. Somehow I forgot to answer that question in the previous reply.... Sorry about that.

As for the Danish Leo upgrade, it includes the following improvements:

Quote

- Installation of New Operating Concept (replacement of analogue technology with digital solutions) and integration with the Army's Tactical Communication Network.

 

- Maintaining the development potential of its weapon systems (all vehicles) including the outfitting of a 120 mm L 55 A1 gun (only 16 vehicles). Modification of protection against mines and Improvised Explosive Devices.

 

- Modification / replacement of auxiliary power unit, air conditioner, protection system (against chemical, bacteriological as well as nuclear threats) and vehicle camera support systems.

 

- Improved Fire control and observation systems.

 

- Modification of the undercarriage and driveline to the new total weight.

 

- A number of minor modifications to maintain the tanks robustness and use based on experience from Afghanistan.

Source (in Danish, page 17): https://www2.forsvaret.dk/omos/publikationer/forsvarsavisen/Documents/Forsvarsavisen 01 2017a.pdf

46 minutes ago, Willy Brandt said:

@Laser Shark

Is the Danish 2A7 in reality a 2A7V or a mix between the two? Because the frontal armor is definitely not part of the A7 version. Also does it use a .50 or a FN MAG as a Coax Machine gun?

It does look like it has more in more in common with the A7Verbessert than the regular A7, but as it's based on the A5DK, there is most likely going to be some differences between the German and Danish vehicles (the final designation is probably going to be A7DK).

The first Leopard 2A7 (prototype) was recently received by the Danish Army, and it's magnificent!

Pics: https://da-dk.facebook.com/permalink...id=10042224310
Video: https://www.facebook.com/10042224310...type=2&theater

On 4.12.2017 at 11:57 PM, SH_MM said:

 

Source

 

 

Interesting news.

The government, its supporting parties and the largest opposition party have settled on an interim tank solution, meaning "new" tanks, either leased or loaned, from 2019. This will ensure that the Army can maintain its tank capacity until after 2025 when the real replacement should be ready. How many or from where isn't clear at this point, however.

Source: https://www.aftenposten.no/norge/i/OnnBWE/Enighet-om-Haren-og-Heimevernet---men-noe-stort-loft-far-de-ikke

Per the Offiserbladet article I posted earlier, it seemed possible for Norway to loan some Leo 2A6s from Germany, but that was only for a couple of years while our own tanks were being upgraded. Now we're talking about a much longer period of time, and in contrast to the earlier ABC-Spürfuchs deal, the Norwegian government seems more  interested in holding an open competition instead of committing to buying new tanks from KMW when the loan period is over. I guess leasing is a more realistic option.

Would you mind sharing your thoughts on this, @SH_MM ? 

People are pushing hard for new Leopard 2 A7Vs for the Norwegian Army it seems. It's been a long time since I've seen this level of engagement on a subject that doesn't involve 'distriktspolitikk'. From BFO:

Quote

New tanks now!

 

The Army's 80s era Leopard 2 A4 tanks are currently among the oldest in Europe, and are hopelessly outdated compared to other countries' Leopard tanks (which we cooperate with in Lithuania), and not least in comparison to our state-of-the-art CV-90 infantry fighting vehicles. Our old LEO 2 A4 communicates badly with our fully digitized CV-90s. The prerequisite for the modernization of the CV-90 was that our LEO 2 A4 tanks would receive the same modernization, so that they would together form a modern and very powerful capacity for the Army, and an important piece in a network-based defense. Now the Ministry of Defense and the Ground Power Review have postponed new acquisitions or modernization of our tanks until after 2025.

 

Supposedly this is done to await new technology. This is nonsense, because a 5th generation MGCS (Main Ground Battle System) will most likely not be on the market until 2035-2040! This has been confirmed during Offisersbladet's visit to the tank manufacturer Krauss Maffei Wegmann, as well as the German professional authority at a FSi-full-day ground power Seminar on November 22 (Association of Defense and Security Industries). In 2035-2040 our LEO 2 A4 will have been on the scrapyard for a long time!

 

Pushing a rapid modernization of our tanks so far out of time can prove critical to the Army. Because it's a fact that our tanks will soon be non-operational. They are struggling with catastrophically poor access to spare parts, technical failures, system failures, stabilization systems, sensors, etc. It's actually so bad, that more people may risk receiving a driving prohibation.

 

The Defense Commander recommended a balanced structure in all domains based on an accumulated increase in the defense budget of approximately NOK 175 billion in the twenty-year period. But when the Air Force receives its F-35, P-8 Poseidon, it uses tens of billions on EBA on Ørland and its establishment on Evenes with QRA and P-8 Poseidon base, and the Navy gets its new submarines, the wallet is empty and there was little left for the army.

 

But the solution is closer than we think.

The Offisersbladet has been in contact with sources in Germany and a great many sources in Norway, and learned the following:

- Our tanks can be updated to the latest LEO 2 A7v in over a two-year period, starting in 2019.

- The German state / army has said yes to let Norway into a tightly packed production line.

- Krauss Maffei Wegmann has confirmed that during the upgrade of our tanks, they can lend us modern

LEO 2 A6 tanks, to maintain operational status / preparedness in the Army and during deployments with NRF VJTF.

- They are supposedly also willing to look at several forms of settlement (repayment over time, leases, etc.).

 

So why should we not do this now? Now we have to appeal to a single parliament, to do the only thing, namely to go for a modernization of the Army's tanks now!

 

Read the expanded article in the December issue of Offisersbladet.

Source: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1491162317605805&id=119205921468125 

(translated from Norwegian w. Google Translate and by me)

On 3.9.2017 at 2:56 PM, SH_MM said:

I am not sure how deep the cooperation between the Netherlands and Norway is, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be as deep as the cooperation between the Netherlands and Germany currently is - though it might have been a closer cooperation at the time the CV90 was chosen. 

IIRC the Norwegian and Dutch armies had some deep cooperation planned in the mid-2000s which would involve exchanges of equipment, joint accusations and access to each others training facilities. This included (from the top of my head, so I might be mistaken on some of it):

- That the Netherands would transfer 18 of their PzH 2000 to Norway, and IIRC a number of  Fennek recce vehicles as well.

- Norway on the other hand would supply the Netherlands with NASAMS 2 (upgraded from Norwegian stocks).

- Norway would also transfer LEGUAN bridge laying systems to the Netherlands, and IIRC also some mortar carriers.

- The Netherlands would upgrade Norway's fleet of Leopard 2A4s to A6.

- Norway would develop and produce specialty vehicles based on the Leopard 2 hull for both the Dutch and Norwegian armies. This included a so called Gjennombrytingspanservogn (armoured break through vehicle).

All of this seemed awesome, but then the people in FD (our MoD) started calculating, and they discovered that this could not be accomplished without increasing the budget (and this was at a point in time when our politicians were more interested in the opposite), so they ended up pulling out of most of the stuff. The Dutch were not pleased (they still ended up buying most of the stuff Norway had offered them however).

On 21.11.2017 at 12:26 AM, Serge said:

So, it can be interesting to save the turret weight to keep it to mine protection (I don’t know if the underbelly was reinforced.).

All the upgraded CV90s come with extra mine protection afaik.

On 21.11.2017 at 12:26 AM, Serge said:

The 81mm is weak to be used to support armored units. 120mm is far better. The use of such a tiny caliber on such a capable chassis is an oversized choice.

I suppose that the main reason for why these are outfitted with 81mm mortars is probably because that’s all the Norwegian Army has atm, and acquiring new 120mm mortars + ammunition would have added too much costs.

With that being said, the VingPos Mortar Weapon System was developed on the request of the Norwegian Army, and it is designed to be able to accommodate both  81mm mortars and 120mm mortars, so  might be that they’re hoping on acquiring some eventually.

Behold the Gavin longship!

5 hours ago, Xoon said:

Welcome to the forum Laser Shark!

3 hours ago, Belesarius said:

Welcome to SH!

 

Thanks for the warm welcome!

37 minutes ago, Andrei_bt said:

From a new Predator -

What type of APC is this?

I believe it might be a GPV Colonel.