Jump to content
Please support this forum by joining the SH Patreon ×
Sturgeon's House

Terror Attacks and Active Shooter Events Thread


Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, SuperComrade said:

Apparently, Kelley purchased the Ruger model AR-556 rifle used in the shooting at a San Antonio sporting goods store in April 2016, according to a law enforcement official.

Does getting convicted in a US Military Court also ban you from owning firearms?


I haven't gotten a firm answer on whether he would have been a prohibited person.  The form 4473 asks if the buyer was ever discharged from the military under dishonorable circumstances, and also whether they have a felony or misdemeanor domestic violence conviction.  The NICS check also looks for those things in their background.

So, I think it's clear that this guy should have been flagged by the system, but it's not clear exactly what broke down and when.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the things which occurs during NICS checks is a time limit. If the system doesn't find anything in X amount of time - I do believe - they are obligated to let you purchase the gun.


In Washington State, where we passed an Initiative (no thanks to the NRA) to require background checks on ALL purchases private or not, it has created a backlog of NICS checks which has allowed individuals who would normally fail a background check to get their gun simply because there wasn't enough time for a thorough check.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

From David M. Fortier


According to initial reports the gunman drove to the store across from the church and exited his vehicle. He was dressed in all black, with face mask and wearing a ballistic vest. He was armed with a Ruger 5.56x45mm AR rifle equipped with an inexpensive red dot sight, white light, sling and a vertical grip. He began shooting walking towards the church, moved to the right of the church and continued firing and then entered the church shooting. He fired as he walked to the front of the church, stopped, turned and continued shooting as he walked back out. It is believed his rifle was loaded with Hornady TAP or VMAX ammunition based upon a loaded cartridge left at the scene. 23 people were killed in the church, two outside the church and one died at a hospital. 20 more were wounded. Ages of the victims range from 5 to 72 years old. 

A neighbor heard the gunfire and responded by grabbing an AR-15 rifle and taking up a shooting position. He fired on the gunman as he exited the church. It appears the gunman was hit by the armed citizen, possibly in the neck, as he dropped his rifle, a Ruger AR, and fled to his vehicle. The armed citizen continued to engage the gunman attempting to stop him and prevent him from fleeing. He fired at least one shot which blew out the back window of the vehicle. The shooter drove away at a high rate of speed. In order to prevent the gunman from escaping and causing further harm the armed citizen flagged down a vehicle. The armed citizen quickly informed the driver of the vehicle, a pick-up truck, the situation and entered the vehicle. The driver of the pick-up truck set out in pursuit of the fleeing gunman while contacting the police via his cell phone. During the pursuit the driver of the pick-up closed the distance with the fleeing gunman while reaching speeds of 95 mph. The pick-up truck driver was able to get within a few feet of the fleeing gunman's vehicle, which then slowed, before the gunman lost control of his vehicle and went off the road at an intersection. 

The armed citizen exited the pick-up and covered the gunman's vehicle with his rifle to prevent the gunman's escape. The driver of the pick-up stated the gunman made no movements inside his vehicle. The driver of the truck placed his vehicle in park and informed the police of the gunman's location. The police arrived on location approximately 5 to 7 minutes later. The gunman died at the scene, and as the driver of the truck stated he made no movements and there were no shots fired for the 5 to 7 minutes before police arrived. Evidence indicates he bled out and died from a gunshot wound or wounds inflicted by the armed citizen. Police stated the gunman's vehicle contained multiple firearms and he may have been headed to another location to continue his shooting spree, but was killed instead. 

The shooter, Devin Patrick Kelley, was 26 years old, father of two. High School classmates of his are quoted as saying he was an outcast who preached "atheism" and said "anyone who believes in God is stupid". He served in the US Air Force from 2009 to 2013 and was Court-Martialed and discharged in 2014 after assaulting his wife and child and serving 12 months in the brig. Under Federal Law a Domestic Violence conviction would prohibit him from legally owning a firearm but evidently was not disqualified as he purchased his rifle at an Academy store. So, for a motive he was a militant atheist who hated Christians. As a militant atheist me might have ties to the Left but that remains to be proven. 

Without a doubt the armed citizen is a hero who likely saved many more lives by his quick thinking and willingness to step in and take action. His ability to properly employ a long gun against an armed and moving gunman while under great stress saved lives and put an end to the shooting spree. His actions demonstrate how a legally owned firearm can be used to save lives if the person behind the gun has the mettle and ability to properly put it to use."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, according to the Mirror:



Texas gunman Devin Kelley was involved in a "domestic dispute" with his family and had sent "threatening text messages" to his mother-in-law, who was a parishioner at the church.

Kelley opened fire on the congregation, killing 26 people and leaving dozens more seriously hurt.

A Texas Department of public safety official said there was a "domestic situation going on" within Kelley's family and his in-laws.

The gunman, who was wearing a skull bask and ballistic vest, has "expressed anger towards his mother-in-law", the the public safety official added,


The spokesman stressed the shooting was not racially or religiously motivated.

Failed familicide? His mother-in-law was not at the church.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He was apparently atheist for a few years according to NYT



A LinkedIn account in his name says he worked in cargo and distribution before his court-martial.

The account says that after the military, Mr. Kelley worked as an aid at a Bible school in Kingsville, Tex., “helping their minds grow and prosper.”

Friends on Facebook said that in recent years, Mr. Kelley had become vocally anti-Christian, to the point where many stopped communicating with him. His Facebook page, which has been deleted, listed that he liked a number of atheist groups.

“He was always talking about how people who believe in God were stupid and trying to preach his atheism,” one of his Facebook friends, Nina Rosa Nava, posted on the site, saying she unfriended him because of it.

But my suspicion is that the immediate trigger for this was probably family. Possible that if he hated his parishioner mother-in-law so much it might have led him to atheism previously?


DPS official Freeman Martin said Kelley's mother-in-law had previously attended services at the First Baptist Church but was not there during the Sunday's bloodbath, the deadliest mass shooting in Texas history.

Martin said Kelley had sent threatening text messages to his mother-in-law. 

"We can tell you that there was a domestic situation going on within this family," Martin said. "This was not racially motivated; it wasn't over religious beliefs."


Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, SuperComrade said:

Incidentally, is this the first time a "good guy with a gun" stopped a mass shooting perpetrator?


No.  There have been several other instances where an armed citizen has confronted or killed an armed attacker.  Once before it even happened in a church.  However, in most of those other cases the shooter was neutralized early on, so the event never really rose to threshold of "mass shooting."  This case was unusual in that the shooter was engaged after they'd already killed a whole mess of people, thereby guaranteeing national attention, which was not generally the case before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is an interesting paper on the contagious/viral nature of shootings:




We find significant evidence that mass killings involving firearms are incented by similar events in the immediate past. On average, this temporary increase in probability lasts 13 days, and each incident incites at least 0.30 new incidents (p = 0.0015). We also find significant evidence of contagion in school shootings, for which an incident is contagious for an average of 13 days, and incites an average of at least 0.22 new incidents (p = 0.0001). All p-values are assessed based on a likelihood ratio test comparing the likelihood of a contagion model to that of a null model with no contagion. On average, mass killings involving firearms occur approximately every two weeks in the US, while school shootings occur on average monthly. We find that state prevalence of firearm ownership is significantly associated with the state incidence of mass killings with firearms, school shootings, and mass shootings.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Create New...