Sturgeon Posted August 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 I feel like Matt is overestimating how much modern fighting styles are based on actual combat, in this video: I suspect most martial arts are and were essentially applied and perhaps somewhat modified systems for play fighting. It's much easier and safer to train, you see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashbotUS Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 I'm going to have to call BS on that one. Every bit of training we do, be it directly from manuscripts or testing new fighting concepts we developed, is done with intent. You don't actually need to kill your opponent to show that a particular movement will kill someone. You run out of training partners if you kill everyone. Sturgeon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted September 15, 2015 Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 Oh Nikolas, projectiles don't work that way! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNyvLz9w69s For comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_krsvGTWSqQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashbotUS Posted September 15, 2015 Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 Rawhide faced shields are pretty effective at deflecting and reducing penetration of various projectiles. However, Dane axes will obliterate flat faced shields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted September 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 Oh I'm just dying to hear, Tox, how arrows and shields don't obey conservation of momentum. Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashbotUS Posted September 15, 2015 Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 I suppose if you speak to the point about "defecting arrows" like some super hero? If you aren't death gripping the shield and you catch a projectile or spear on the edges, it will swing from the impact of the projectile (like it should because physics). That said, if you have a plain linden wood shield, projectiles have a better chance to bite and the shield will split. At that point you will be filled with arrows, axes, or spears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted September 15, 2015 Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 Oh I'm just dying to hear, Tox, how arrows and shields don't obey conservation of momentum.How much momentum does an arrow have? More to the point, how is the deflection of the shield supposed to reduce penetration when the momentum is only conserved by dint of stopping the projectile?Your shield won't move at all if the arrow breezes through it. This idea that things can flap around at less than a metre per second and somehow stop something moving at 50-100 metres per second shows a distinct lack of understanding. It's akin to sticking springs onto a metal plate and expecting it to become significantly better at stopping bullets. Edit: 'things' should be read here to mean 'things which would otherwise not stop said something'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashbotUS Posted September 15, 2015 Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 The point is, the arrows don't just breeze through shields. If one is gripping a shield properly (not a death grip) the force of the impact will swing the shield in your hand and the arrow will end up sticking in your shield. I don't think the video was suggesting someone is attempting to parry an arrow with a shield by meeting it mid flight. That's silliness. This does require a properly constructed shield. As I mentioned before, a unfaced shield will split and leave you filled with arrows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Again, the swinging has nothing to do with increasing the protection. The arrow will either penetrate or not (my experience is of the arrow penetrating to about the depth of the head) and will transfer momentum as it does so. The swinging will only substantially take place after the penetration event. The only thing here that would increase protection would be for the shield to swing violently enough to change the path through the wood or to deform/shatter the arrow before it completes its penetration. Neither of which is going to happen in this case due to the relative masses of the objects and the velocity of the arrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Oh I'm just dying to hear, Tox, how arrows and shields don't obey conservation of momentum. I'll wait here for my apology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashbotUS Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Right, but if you brace it, the arrow is more likely to penetrate than if you allow the transfer of the forward momentum of the arrow to carry through the shield as it turns. It works the same way with a spear. If I put my weight behind the shield and make it a solid surface, you can punch right through it but if I allow it to swing loosely in my hand, the spears forward momentum will transfer to the shield and turn it. It will continue forward but at the angle in which it was deflected off of the shield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 A spear is a lot more massive and slow than an arrow. Feel free to conduct an experiment (identical shields shot with identical arrows, fixed and free-swinging) to test this, but my understanding of physics is that the loose hold simply makes getting hit with an arrow a bit more comfortable. No increase in protection. If anyone here passed more than two semesters of physics, now would be a good time to chime in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashbotUS Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 I did, but it was a long time ago. My electrical engineering degree covered in dust. I think we are getting something lost in communication here. There is this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsZnTCQptWc#t=218 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 4:35 - you can see the shield only starts moving after it has captured the arrow. Shield is loosely mounted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 I did, but it was a long time ago. My electrical engineering degree covered in dust. I think we are getting something lost in communication here. There is this. Similar - did two semesters of physics in 2004, for an electronic engineering degree I never completed. I then spent most of my masters (in biotechnology) grappling with the ballistics of tiny metal particles aimed at plant tissue. Go figure In the interests of clarity, I'm going to lay out the hypothesis that I am disagreeing with: - an arrow - strikes a shield - perpendicularly - in such a fashion that it would otherwise penetrate - but is stopped by allowing the rotation of the shield in the hand Given the relative mass and velocity of the arrow in relation to the shield, and bearing in mind their relative compositions, I feel very confident that I have shown that the above hypothesis is disproved. Feel free to give me your understanding of the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashbotUS Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 That last part is where we got off track. I don't think the arrow is stopped. I think the transfer of forward momentum is increased onto the shield when it is allowed to swivel vs being solid braced. It is reducing the arrow but it won't stop it from penetrating the shield in most cases. The facing is what keeps arrows from gliding right through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted October 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Really neat bit of historical investigation: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 I really don't know where to put this. And since I don't think it deserves its own section, I'm leaving it here. But apparently this is a thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvNzQ1fWURE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV3yvOkooYA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belesarius Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 I really don't know where to put this. And since I don't think it deserves its own section, I'm leaving it here. But apparently this is a thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvNzQ1fWURE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV3yvOkooYA Heh, Faxe. Which was, when I was young and stupid, the go to beverage for the illicit teenage drinker. They had a 10%abv beer that tasted like unfiltered sewage left to ferment in the open sun. (About the strongest 'beer' availabe) All the thugs, drunken hippies and wannabe gangsters drank that shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashbotUS Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 I did an event like this some years ago. The entire thing was basically beating the other dude until you get your opponent on the ground. Donward 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted November 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Matt Easton confirmed for Wehraboo: SergeantMatt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergeantMatt Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 Goddammit. Welp, flood the comment section with actual information, he can be saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashbotUS Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 Oh boy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 Matt Easton confirmed for Wehraboo: God dammit Matt. Tiger/Panther/King Tiger/Firefly wankery + Sherman = shit Appreciation incremented downwards. Sturgeon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted November 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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