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Sturgeon

"Pigs" Have A Hard Job

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On your diversity idea, I am more than prepared to be convinced as it sounds plausible. However, you also say that African Americans commit a disproportionate amount of crime in your country. Surely this ruins your hypothesis right off the bat?

 

More, I still have yet to see any sort of metrics for what constitutes 'diversity' or 'integration'; let alone an analysis comparing inter-country diversity, intra-country diversity, overall crime rate and changes in all of these factors over time.

 

Inequality at least has Gini and similar metrics to look at and test. 

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This is why I'm finding it hard to talk about this subject.

 

In the first paragraph, you're blowing off a 25% reduction in the prison population like its second prize or something. 25% = 575000 Americans who don't have to stay in a man-made purgatory for what everyone involved thinks is no good reason. 25% means $18 billion in wasted tax dollars being put to some (surely better use). This would be the sort of thing to march in the street about in other countries. And this psychic shrug being taken care of, you spend a while talking about your pet theory (more on that below) before mentioning inalienable rights. 

 

One paragraph to shrug off what should be the biggest rights issue in your country, another to simply state that all those rights are what's stopping the system from change.

 

Am I the only one who thinks this is crazy? Like, even without going into how all your rights haven't done dick in terms of stopping your government from constructing the largest surveillance apparatus in the world?

 

I can't speak for Virdea, but "crazy" is an excellent way to describe the United States. Don't worry, we're bringing it overseas to you, too!

 

 

On your diversity idea, I am more than prepared to be convinced as it sounds plausible. However, you also say that African Americans commit a disproportionate amount of crime in your country. Surely this ruins your hypothesis right off the bat?

 

More, I still have yet to see any sort of metrics for what constitutes 'diversity' or 'integration'; let alone an analysis comparing inter-country diversity, intra-country diversity, overall crime rate and changes in all of these factors over time.

 

Inequality at least has Gini and similar metrics to look at and test. 

 

At the risk of being negative, I think that reality doesn't care whether we're comfortable with it or not, which means a certain amount of awful racism is bound to be factually accurate. Melting pot diversity can surely shoulder some blame for higher crime rates, but at the end of the day I think racial proclivities also must be accounted for as a factor.

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I can't speak for Virdea, but "crazy" is an excellent way to describe the United States. Don't worry, we're bringing it overseas to you, too!

 

 

 

At the risk of being negative, I think that reality doesn't care whether we're comfortable with it or not, which means a certain amount of awful racism is bound to be factually accurate. Melting pot diversity can surely shoulder some blame for higher crime rates, but at the end of the day I think racial proclivities also must be accounted for as a factor.

 

Race how? Look at stats for homicide (again, a proxy) and suicide on the continent. Note how different African countries have wildly different rates, and the one with the worst is the one with a bunch of non-african ethnic enclaves (I told Virdea I was open to being convinced).

 

How are african americans a homogenous race such that their 'proclivities' are even detectable in terms of P = G + E + GE?

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Is diversity being used in a sense that's basically synonymous with the size of the various minority demographics that are considered separate from the majority of the ruling class?

 

I'm having a bit of a hard time getting what the words are trying to represent, and I'm having a hard time finding the words to express what it makes sense to me as being.

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First I am not discounting a 25% drop in prison populations, I am an active political advocate for this change, and was significantly responsible (along with thousands of others) of bringing the change to the state of Washington despite not being a user of the drug in question.  Please realize that as a nearly 50-year old politically active author and a 32-year member of the Republican Party in its Teddy Roosevelt wing, my own support for the legalization of marijuana (along with my support for other libertarian ideals such as removal of government from regulation of sex, marriage, religion, speech, and the like) is an important part of the process.  When the center-right moves on ideas like marijuana, change happens.  That change has to percolate, but people like myself are working hard to make the change.

 

Diversity is a measure of differences in social custom.  The subject is complex but the basis of understanding social diversity comes from the writings of Boaz and Kroeber, who each attempted to define social norms versus social extremes.  Communities can differentiate in a wide number of ways - what they have for dinner and when, how they feel about work, what language they speak, the color of their skin and their choice in free time activity.  

 

While some social diversity measures are flawed, social diversity itself can easily be tracked to crime.  Africa is the most diverse continent and has very high crime - although crime is lower in less diverse nations.  

 

As for African Americans committing crime.  Diversity means having significant minority groups and African Americans are not the only minority group with high crime - the Romany of Europe are another example.  However it is wrong to consider African Americans in the US as one cultural group.  They represent at least 11 major groups, just as self-identified white populations in the US are actually near 9 groups, hispanics are 8 groups, and so forth.

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What can be done about diversity?  Nothing.  Diversity has other advantages.  There is a lot of truth in the idea that you can have a diverse society, a free society, or an orderly society, but not all three.  The low point in American crime figures is 1955, when significant efforts were made to eliminate diversity.

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Is differentiation to the point of using other as a verb in a very awkward sounding construction essential to one or both of those processes, and how would one go about measuring that sort of identity thing?

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"Is differentiation to the point of using other as a verb in a very awkward sounding construction essential to one or both of those processes"

 

I have no idea.  My training in anthropology is limited to the essentials

 

"and how would one go about measuring that sort of identity thing?"

 

This is a dissertation level discussion.  My own training is psychographics and human studies and I can think of dozens of ways to develop diversity measures.  

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"Is differentiation to the point of using other as a verb in a very awkward sounding construction essential to one or both of those processes"

 

I have no idea.  My training in anthropology is limited to the essentials

 

"and how would one go about measuring that sort of identity thing?"

 

This is a dissertation level discussion.  My own training is psychographics and human studies and I can think of dozens of ways to develop diversity measures.  

The fact that some of our debate topics reach this level of discussion is why I find this forum, no matter how much I disagree with some of the positions of people here, such a FUCKING AWESOME place to call home.  Because the shit we talk about while overtired and hammered, reaches a level where it could get someone a fucking PHD.

(or equivalent)

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I have multiple students who work for me, but I would send a student who wanted a model of diversity away first to tell me what they think the model is.  Peter Reinsch presented a model in the early 2000s that gained my attention when he was studying immigration patterns in Europe.  The economics diversity model has traditionally been fairly flawed because people are more than money, but when you throw religion, psychographic attitudes on religion, sex, marriage, work, and wealth, empathy ratings, and the like into the model then you can measure diversity very well.  

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Meanwhile, here in the Evergreenweed State, Seattle Police Department detectives are seeking help in trying to apprehend two burglars who broke into three marijuana dispensaries and stole $100,000 worth of pot and accessories and a car.

 

http://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2015/06/02/police-investigating-100000-pot-heist/

 

"Detectives believe the suspects cut power to the three adjacent businesses in the 2000 block of 22nd Avenue South around 3 AM, rammed their way through a fence. The suspects then squeezed through vents to get inside the complex, which houses a medical lab and two medical marijuana grow operations.

Once inside, the suspects hacked their way through the walls separating the businesses until they reached the medical lab’s freezer, which was stocked with processed marijuana concentrates. The suspects filled several bags with pot products and then stole an employee’s car, which had been left overnight at the complex."

 

The neighborhood where the marijuana stores are located are in one of the traditional economically disenfranchised portions of Seattle located five blocks from MLK Jr Way in Seattle's Rainier Valley.

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And a couple of weeks ago.

 

http://westseattleblog.com/2015/04/west-seattle-crime-watch-early-morning-robbery/

 

Two masked men forced their way inside a Seattle marijuana shop owner’s West Seattle home early Friday and tied him up at gunpoint, before making off with tens of thousands of dollars in cash, a half-dozen pistols and a high-powered rifle.

The 47-year-old owner was walking up to his home in the 8600 block of 35th Avenue SW around 12:30 AM when two masked men approached him. The suspects grabbed a puppy the victim was carrying, and forced the man inside his home at gunpoint.

The suspects forced the victim to open two safes inside the home and then tied him to a bed while they took a large amount of cash, six different handguns, a rifle, four watches, and the victim’s surveillance system.

About an hour after the incident began, the victim got free and began searching for his puppy. When he found the dog, he called police.

The victim wasn’t able to provide much of a description of the suspects: he told officers both men appeared to be in their 30s, one was white, the other Hispanic.

Robbery detectives are investigating the case, and asking anyone with information to contact police at (206) 684-5535.

 

Part of the problem is that marijuana sales in this state is a cash only business given the federal prohibition of the drug coupled with the IRS and banks disallowing the deposit of drug money. On the other hand, as far as I can see, Seattle is a large metro area and the legalization of drugs has attracted criminally minded individuals to this state who view it as sort of a Wild West in terms of drug usage and where anything goes.

 

At least the puppy didn't get hurt.

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Good perspective from LAV - bit of a promo in the middle, but still:

 

 

say what you want about vickers' stuff but they usually have their heads screwed on right

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Think about Neil Gardner.  He engages the Columbine shooters at 60 meters when they had long arms - shooting out his ammo supply but staying in the line of fire for several minutes.  Today he is called a coward (for not charging Kliebold to gain a better tactical position) a baby killer (because in his first interviews he said he was shooting to kill Kliebold and people objected that a high school student would be subject to kill shots) an untrained shooter (for failing to shoot the weapon from Kliebold's hands) and so forth.

 

In my book the guy engaged two heavily armed shooters at 60 meters and bought a minute or two for kids to get out of the school is a hero.  But he is a cop so no version of what he did was considered good.

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But when gangbangers use an iconic World War 2 handgun, the Pig's job gets easier.

http://mynorthwest.com/11/2785654/Police-tie-Luger-to-10-Seattle-shootings

http://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2015/07/16/police-looking-for-gunmen-pistol-tied-to-ten-shootings/

I can't view the small pictures well on my mobile up here. But can this be evidence of street gang Wehraboos?

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Less cops are getting killed on the job. That's a good thing, isn't it?

 

Isn't it?

 

I have a hunch the combination of better technology and better training is a key factor.

 

Inventions like the "bullet proof" vest, better communications and medical technology.

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