So, Germany is a weird place

[Khand-e]

Also there, is a "Lebowski Bar" in Dresden, in which they have the Big Lebowski playing at all times on multiple different screens.

 

"I'm not paying my tab, what's mine is mine."

 

"But that's not fair!"

 

"FAIR? WHO'S THE FUCKING NIHILISTS HERE YOU FUCKING CRYBABIES?"

[Meplat]

You realise that this is like saying that all arguments are wrong, then pointing to the ramblings of the town drunk as your example?

 

You are correct that "mass shooting" is a fuzzy term. So define your own terms and we'll go from there.

 

Personally, the metric I'd use for a "spree killing" is this: a small number of perpetrators (one to three maximum), with no material support from outside organisations, the perpetrators displaying premeditation and preparation before killing (or attempting to kill) a number of people in order to make some sort of point (political, philosophical or whatever). If this definition looks a lot like terrorism, that's because it is. Spree killers and the like are simply the atomised, disconnected expression of terrorism that atomised, disconnected developed countries seem to favour. In any case, the remarkable thing about this form of killing is that, whichever definition you use, the US is still the most prolific producer.

The town drunk has designs and concerns extending no further than his next drink.  There is a large difference between what the local bar-rag says, and what the supposed "leader" of a major nation states. (or what is pushed by major "news" groups).

 

As to your metric, you've eliminated a great deal of what you're claiming the U.S. produces, as many of those you'd assign suffered from mental illness that renders your "making a point" article, moot.  How does one "make a point" when it's demonstrably insane, and how is it applicable to your definition?

 

Well, maybe if you have an agenda to push and are running for office it is..  Or when you are trying to up your viewership/readership/get that program money..

 

Otherwise it's "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics".

[Sturgeon]

You realise that this is like saying that all arguments are wrong, then pointing to the ramblings of the town drunk as your example?

 

You are correct that "mass shooting" is a fuzzy term. So define your own terms and we'll go from there.

 

Personally, the metric I'd use for a "spree killing" is this: a small number of perpetrators (one to three maximum), with no material support from outside organisations, the perpetrators displaying premeditation and preparation before killing (or attempting to kill) a number of people in order to make some sort of point (political, philosophical or whatever). If this definition looks a lot like terrorism, that's because it is. Spree killers and the like are simply the atomised, disconnected expression of terrorism that atomised, disconnected developed countries seem to favour. In any case, the remarkable thing about this form of killing is that, whichever definition you use, the US is still the most prolific producer.

 

We have a totally screwed up dating scene, that's why. A bunch of young, sexually frustrated males with nothing to do but be angry at all the women who've rejected them. Oh, also our mental health care is shit, so we've got a bunch of psychos, both natural and artificial (made via prescription drugs).

[Toxn]

The town drunk has designs and concerns extending no further than his next drink.  There is a large difference between what the local bar-rag says, and what the supposed "leader" of a major nation states. (or what is pushed by major "news" groups).

 

As to your metric, you've eliminated a great deal of what you're claiming the U.S. produces, as many of those you'd assign suffered from mental illness that renders your "making a point" article, moot.  How does one "make a point" when it's demonstrably insane, and how is it applicable to your definition?

 

Well, maybe if you have an agenda to push and are running for office it is..  Or when you are trying to up your viewership/readership/get that program money..

 

Otherwise it's "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics".

 

It's amazing how often people who use that line know fuck-all about statistics.

 

As for my metric, what is your definition of insanity? Of mental illness? 

 

You want to talk terms, so I'll repeat myself: come up with a definition that satisfies you, render it into intelligible terms and we can discuss it further. 

[Toxn]

We have a totally screwed up dating scene, that's why. A bunch of young, sexually frustrated males with nothing to do but be angry at all the women who've rejected them. Oh, also our mental health care is shit, so we've got a bunch of psychos, both natural and artificial (made via prescription drugs).

 

'The dating scene' is a new argument to me. 

[Meplat]

It's amazing how often people who use that line know fuck-all about statistics.

 

As for my metric, what is your definition of insanity? Of mental illness? 

 

You want to talk terms, so I'll repeat myself: come up with a definition that satisfies you, render it into intelligible terms and we can discuss it further. 

So you do not think the figures are highly suspect, and /or open to manipulation?

Okay then..

 

All that aside,

You're still missing the point..

 

There is -no- "proper" definition of "spree killer" or "spree killing". It's a term that is used and was invented to do nothing more than inflame emotions and sell newspapers, elect more politicians of dubious honesty or justify more bureaucratic parasites. 

 

It serves no functional purpose otherwise.

[Sturgeon]

'The dating scene' is a new argument to me. 

 

A grown male who hasn't gotten his rocks off in a while has a lot of energy to do other things. Add a dash of psycho - medication-induced or otherwise - and you can quickly get a spree killer or mass murderer on your hands.

I'm not necessarily suggesting this, but I'm willing to bet that if we legalized and regulated prostitution, spree killings would go down.

[CrashbotUS]

Taking up a hobby that allows for a healthy outlet of aggression help.

 

[Toxn]

A grown male who hasn't gotten his rocks off in a while has a lot of energy to do other things. Add a dash of psycho - medication-induced or otherwise - and you can quickly get a spree killer or mass murderer on your hands.

I'm not necessarily suggesting this, but I'm willing to bet that if we legalized and regulated prostitution, spree killings would go down.

Hasn't that been one of the documented effects of the legalization of porn?

 

In any case, I'm all for legalised prostitution - it sucks that you have people doing something for which there is clear demand (and no obvious downsides), whose reward is then to be treated like scum and have their rights stomped on.

 

Let's be honest, though: a lot of these shooters give off the stink of a man who could only get laid if he was paying. You can hardly blame the dating scene for the rejection of bowl cut-wearing obsessive-compulsive racists.

 

 

So you do not think the figures are highly suspect, and /or open to manipulation?

Okay then..

 

All that aside,

You're still missing the point..

 

There is -no- "proper" definition of "spree killer" or "spree killing". It's a term that is used and was invented to do nothing more than inflame emotions and sell newspapers, elect more politicians of dubious honesty or justify more bureaucratic parasites. 

 

It serves no functional purpose otherwise.

 

The figures for how many people get killed/wounded in a given incident are not exactly open to interpretation. Where you put the cut-off for what should count as a specific class of incident is.

 

My assertion is that, by almost any metric you care to name, the US has an abnormally high number of guys (it is always guys) going out and killing a bunch of people in cold blood for reasons other than money or group politics. What you have, which I have tried to qualify for you, is something like a terrorist movement without the movement.

 

Again; you provide a definition around which we can discuss things, instead of endlessly warping the conversation back to your obsession against bureaucrats. 

[Sturgeon]

Hasn't that been one of the documented effects of the legalization of porn?

 

In any case, I'm all for legalised prostitution - it sucks that you have people doing something for which there is clear demand (and no obvious downsides), whose reward is then to be treated like scum and have their rights stomped on.

 

Let's be honest, though: a lot of these shooters give off the stink of a man who could only get laid if he was paying. You can hardly blame the dating scene for the rejection of bowl cut-wearing obsessive-compulsive racists.

 

I dunno, the American dating scene is pretty effed up.

You're right though, there's a slight implication to what I said that if only some girl would date them, they'd be perfectly happy, normal people.

No, of course not, but they might not go murder people if their basal needs were more thoroughly met. It sounds trivial, but I think that's a major driving force for many of these creatures.

[Toxn]

I dunno, the American dating scene is pretty effed up.

You're right though, there's a slight implication to what I said that if only some girl would date them, they'd be perfectly happy, normal people.

No, of course not, but they might not go murder people if their basal needs were more thoroughly met. It sounds trivial, but I think that's a major driving force for many of these creatures.

My bitter intuition is that they'd still be likely to murder, but it would be their spouse who gets it rather than a school/church/workplace.

 

I don't think you're wrong though. We seem to have forgotten that people are actually simple creatures: give someone sufficient food, shelter, a community, a companion, sex, exercise and sleep and 99.999% of the population will be happy. All the goods, drugs and distractions in the world can't make up for the lack of basic human contact. For the rest (0.0001%), I suspect nothing could ever be enough.

 

Which leads to the question I end up asking all the psychologists/psychiatrists I know: is there any evidence whatsoever that human happiness increases with an increasing per-capita number of psychologists/psychiatrists? This is a bit unfair, of course. But as far as I can tell, there is simply no statistical correlation - just as there is no statistical correlation between income and happiness once you've covered the basic cost of living.

 

Example:

http://aeon.co/magazine/psychology/does-everyone-who-suffers-trauma-have-ptsd/

 

Edit: since I'm posting stuff from Aeon, here is another take on mass murder in the U.S.:

http://aeon.co/magazine/psychology/what-explains-mass-shootings-in-the-us/

 

Because Aeon is shit at doing proper references, I went and dug up the study referred to:

http://hsx.sagepub.com/content/18/1/125.full.pdf+html

[Meplat]

 

 

 

The figures for how many people get killed/wounded in a given incident are not exactly open to interpretation. Where you put the cut-off for what should count as a specific class of incident is.

 

My assertion is that, by almost any metric you care to name, the US has an abnormally high number of guys (it is always guys) going out and killing a bunch of people in cold blood for reasons other than money or group politics. What you have, which I have tried to qualify for you, is something like a terrorist movement without the movement.

 

Again; you provide a definition around which we can discuss things, instead of endlessly warping the conversation back to your obsession against bureaucrats. 

 

Who is doing the counting.

Ask yourself that, and my "obsession" (more of a loathing for their intentional obfuscation or obliteration of facts/evidence) for the breed of social parasite infesting this country will become evident, as well as further helping to illustrate why you cannot trust what you are seeing.

[Toxn]

Who is doing the counting.

Ask yourself that, and my "obsession" (more of a loathing for their intentional obfuscation or obliteration of facts/evidence) for the breed of social parasite infesting this country will become evident, as well as further helping to illustrate why you cannot trust what you are seeing.

I didn't know well-publicised mass murders were so easy to cover up in terms of body count.

 

Since we're basically just spinning in circles here (or spirals, as I'm getting the impression that you're driving to another topic), let's simply drop it and return to sharing stories about far-off places.

 

~

 

Germany I cannot comment too much on, since I haven't been there. However, we do have a big German community where I live and I'm friends with a bunch of German South Africans. So I guess some aspects of German culture just don't seem that strange to me?

 

Japan, on the other hand, was really different. Like, culture-shock different.

[Meplat]

I didn't know well-publicised mass murders were so easy to cover up in terms of body count.

 

Since we're basically just spinning in circles here (or spirals, as I'm getting the impression that you're driving to another topic), let's simply drop it and return to sharing stories about far-off places.

 

~

 

Germany I cannot comment too much on, since I haven't been there. However, we do have a big German community where I live and I'm friends with a bunch of German South Africans. So I guess some aspects of German culture just don't seem that strange to me?

 

Japan, on the other hand, was really different. Like, culture-shock different.

I've never left it, I'm still trying to get you to understand why they seem "well reported" and why those figures (and the "news" doing the reporting) should beheld very suspect.

 

The basics of "Why is this "news" being presented, what purpose does it serve, and who is making the most noise?" are questions you should ask in any tidbit of "news" or "official government figures" coming from the U.S..

 

That aside, Japan (where I lived) was rather nice.  Tokyo was weird though.

[Toxn]

I definitely enjoyed the kyushu area (which we travelled around) much more than Tokyo (which we moved through). Something about big cities makes them all very similar to each other.

Kyoto was also great, but we didn't get nearly enough time in it. Ditto Yakushima.

[Meplat]

I definitely enjoyed the kyushu area (which we travelled around) much more than Tokyo (which we moved through). Something about big cities makes them all very similar to each other.

Kyoto was also great, but we didn't get nearly enough time in it. Ditto Yakushima.

I was well north of there, in the Tohoku area, Aomori prefecture.

[Toxn]

Was it as cold as I've heard?

Mind you, the South African version of frigid might not be well correlated to what other people think of as cold.

[Meplat]

Was it as cold as I've heard?

Mind you, the South African version of frigid might not be well correlated to what other people think of as cold.

I was born and grew up in the northern lower peninsula of Michigan, right on the lake.

Burrowing out of the house in winter was pretty common. 

 

It was cold, but not like I saw in Michigan. You'd get a lot of snow, but it rarely got too far below zero (centigrade).  You'd get well below zero (farenheit) where I used to live. It was also a "wetter" kind of cold.  Not the mindbendingly dry cold you'd often get once the lakes iced up.

 

Now Korea, that'd get cold. Osan felt like north michigan but without so much snow.

[Toxn]

All of these sound, quite frankly, like hell.

Hell, we're all bitching because the weekend forecast has us dropping to a maximum of 14C.

[Meplat]

That's a lot of why I moved to Arizona ~25 years ago.. Though that meant going from one extreme to another..

[Belesarius]

14c is beautiful.  Just about perfect temp for Bele.

[CrashbotUS]

Korea did get pretty chilly. 

[Vanagandr]

Iceland seems like it would have pretty decent weather for half the year

(from October to April)

[Xlucine]

It's weird how easily people can acclimatize to weather - I've had temps of 27 C (80 F), and ~60% humidity, and I almost died, while it sounds like par for the course in much of USA.

[Belesarius]

It's weird how easily people can acclimatize to weather - I've had temps of 27 C (80 F), and ~60% humidity, and I almost died, while it sounds like par for the course in much of USA.

That's average summer weather here in Toronto.