LostCosmonaut Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 One question which has occasionally popped up on internet discussion sites that I frequent is the question of what exactly constitutes a genocide. Without getting too deep into any specific instances, I think we can have a fairly useful discussion about this. According to the ICC; GenocideArticle 6 defines the crime of genocide as "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group".[61] There are five such acts which constitute crimes of genocide under article 6:[62] Killing members of a group Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group The definition of these crimes is identical to those contained within the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide of 1948. This is useful, but insufficient. For instance, committing only one of the acts on the list, it almost certainly isn't genocide. If I walk out my door and shoot two men of [insert ethnic group here], I'm a douchebag, but probably not a genocidal douchebag. On the other hand, requiring all five boxes to be checked opens you up to all kinds of legalistic weaseling. "Well, we didn't transfer the children of [insert ethnic group] to another group, we just murdered them! Only four boxes checked, no genocide here!" So where do we draw the line? Two boxes checked? Three? Some other checklist promulgated by another international authority? To me, genocide is like pornography; I know it when I see it. I don't have a bunch of boxes to check, but if you're murdering a bunch of people based on who their ancestors were, nine times out of ten it's genocide. What sayeth y'all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 It is what it says: an attempt to destroy an entire genotype. Now, forget that race/religion/whatever aren't that well linked to genetics and you get a definition like so: - actions conducted by a state, nation, organisation or group; - with intent to completely destroy another group; - such that the other group ceases to exist at a genetic level. Thus, herding people into reservations - while incredibly asshollish and terrible - isn't genocide. Forcibly sterilising a people (even if they're then allowed to live in luxury) is. Intent should, as with all crimes, factor into things somewhat as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 It sounds like you're reading into it that all five acts must be committed against a single group for it to be genocide. I don't think that's the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Well, we've gotten to the point that the Palestinian Authority is trying to get on the UN International Criminal Court so they can bring up "war crimes" charges against Israel. So the term "genocide" has really lost much of its original meaning. But since I'm a terrible person, I just wanted to share that when I first saw Unstart's post about "What is Genocide", the first thing that jumped into my mind was this... http://youtu.be/xhrBDcQq2DM Sturgeon, LoooSeR and Ulric 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xthetenth Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 It is what it says: an attempt to destroy an entire genotype. Now, forget that race/religion/whatever aren't that well linked to genetics and you get a definition like so: - actions conducted by a state, nation, organisation or group; - with intent to completely destroy another group; - such that the other group ceases to exist at a genetic level. Thus, herding people into reservations - while incredibly asshollish and terrible - isn't genocide. Forcibly sterilising a people (even if they're then allowed to live in luxury) is. Intent should, as with all crimes, factor into things somewhat as well. I'd say that taking it back to the latin word gens and to some idea the roman concept of a gens is more useful than genotype in this context, since those were semi-distinct segments of the roman nature with some degree of internal autonomy and distinctive custom. Actions by a nation or group with the intent to destroy/remove (when serious destruction is used in that process) a cultural/racial subgroup in its entirety would qualify as genocide by my understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Well what would the ancient Romans know about genocide, hmmm? Oh yeah. That whole bit with Carthage, the Gauls, Hebrews, the Thracians and... well... any other tribe that got in their way. For a group of people whom we owe so much of our culture, language and laws to, the Romans really were baddies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xthetenth Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 The Romans didn't really have a concept of trying to exterminate a people, but vae victis was in full effect in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulric Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Well, we've gotten to the point that the Palestinian Authority is trying to get on the UN International Criminal Court so they can bring up "war crimes" charges against Israel. So the term "genocide" has really lost much of its original meaning. But since I'm a terrible person, I just wanted to share that when I first saw Unstart's post about "What is Genocide", the first thing that jumped into my mind was this... http://youtu.be/xhrBDcQq2DM Well, who doesn't love the early 90's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Well, who doesn't love the early 90's? Probably Tied. And any of our Russkie sympathizing friends. *Evil Grin* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 BBC has a story about a Nazi gold train potentially being discovered. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33994483 That's a lot of loot. It is almost enough cash to make one forget how much of that gold came to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike E Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 300 tonnes? Ship it to Russia! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinegata Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 The problem with international law like genocide and war crimes is that international law pretty much does not act in the same way as criminal law. International law is intensely political, and its definition, implementation, and prosecution are all subject to prior approval by all of the nation-states involved in the process. This is why it's actually harder to prosecute crimes against humanity and war crimes, not easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 The problem with international law like genocide and war crimes is that international law pretty much does not act in the same way as criminal law. International law is intensely political, and its definition, implementation, and prosecution are all subject to prior approval by all of the nation-states involved in the process. This is why it's actually harder to prosecute crimes against humanity and war crimes, not easier. Unless the leader being prosecuted comes from Africa, of course. Gotta love the ICC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Nothing is new. http://www.unz.com/gnxp/old-europeans-were-old-school-thugs/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Nothing is new. http://www.unz.com/gnxp/old-europeans-were-old-school-thugs/ That fuckwit realizes that Moses wasn't European, doesn't he? Doesn't... He? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 ME is Europe when it's convenient for folk. In any case, read the substantive content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 2/3s of millennials don't know what Auschwitz was according to poll. 22 percent hadn't heard of the Holocaust. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/04/12/two-thirds-of-millennials-dont-know-what-auschwitz-is-according-to-study-of-fading-holocaust-knowledge/?utm_term=.93989faaf3c8 The WaPo story doesn't link to the study itself because What is Journalism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Donward said: 2/3s of millennials don't know what Auschwitz was according to poll. 22 percent hadn't heard of the Holocaust. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/04/12/two-thirds-of-millennials-dont-know-what-auschwitz-is-according-to-study-of-fading-holocaust-knowledge/?utm_term=.93989faaf3c8 The WaPo story doesn't link to the study itself because What is Journalism? Reminds me of something I saw today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belesarius Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 Well at least I've done my job as a parent. My kid has been to Auschwitz. #LestWeForget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 My maternal grandfather was involved in the (disastrous) 'clean-up' at Belsen.....To say it affected him profoundly would be an understatement of monolithic proportions. He didn't talk about it much, but that silence was very telling in itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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