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Jim Warford

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Posts posted by Jim Warford

  3. The Soviet Tank Thread: Transversely Mounted 1000hp Engines

    in Mechanized Warfare

    Posted

    12 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

       Heh, Kharkovite trash

    :ian:

     

       How little "West" knew about about Soviet tanks

     

    As was discussed previously on this site, the two most important things to keep secret about secret things are not revealing how much you actually know, and the source of what you actually know. Open sources like IDR and Jane's don't always get it right...over the years, they have provided some very good open source info, but they're not all-knowing. Here again, is the previously confidential pic of the T-80 from 1979...2 years before the IDR article. Who knows what the "West" knew at higher and higher levels of classification?

     

    T-80%20Tank%20Prototype_CIA-FOIA_Oct1979

     

     

  4. The Soviet Tank Thread: Transversely Mounted 1000hp Engines

    in Mechanized Warfare

    Posted

    On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 10:54 PM, skylancer-3441 said:

    International Defense Review 1977-06, article on T-72 tank

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    Details of the Soviet T-72 Battle Tank

    Two new tactical weapons systems were shown in the recent November 7 parade in Moscow's Red Square. The first to pass the podium was the BRDM fitted with a raised quintuple mount for new missile launcher/containers resembling those of the Euromissile HOT. The second, and undoubtedly the most impressive, was the T-72 battle tank.

    A though the IDR has not yet recieved photos of the parade as this article goes to press, we are publishing here a selection of T-72 pictures whch show considerably more than could be seen in Red Square. They prove conclusively that the tank has considerable differences from the vehicle previously deployed in East Germany, and show for the first time the ammunition for the 125 mm gun and the removable, spring-loaded skirt plates which were not fitted to vehicles in the parade.

    The 4-view drawing overleaf and the poorer quality photos showing the earlier vehicles were recently released to us by the US Army Intelligence and Security Command (IN-SCOM), whilst the sharper photos reproduced here were taken by Jean Pierre Quittard, of the Gamma Agency, at a barracks of the Taman Guards Division 45 km West of Moscow, during a visit in October by French Defense Minister Yvon Bourges.

    General characteristics of the new tank, provided to the French visitors by the Russians, are as follows: designation — T-72; weight — 41 t; engine power — 700 hp; max. speed — 100 km/h; unrefuelled range — 500 km; crew — 3 men of small size; main weapon — 125 mm gun; coaxial MG — 7.62 mm; cupola MG — 12.7 mm; main gun ammunition — 40 rounds (12 APFSDS, 6 HEAT and 22 HE). Skirt plates on the sides were said to provide protection against armour piercing projectiles, and the front-mounted shovel was described as enabling the tank to dig itself in in a few minutes.

    Hull
    Dimensions and layout of the hull appear very similar, if not identical, to those given on the 4-view drawing for the older vehicle (i.e. 6.4 m long, 3.375 m wide and 1.4 m high). The driver is centrally positioned at the top of the long sloping glacis, which is transversely ribbed and has a deep-v splash board. The gunner's hatch swivels open to the right, and his main vision is provided by a wide angle periscope about 20 cm in front of the hatch, protected when not in use by a cover (see lead photo).

    Beneath the glacis is a toothed shovel/dozer blade, presumably operated hydraulically by the driver. The underside of the blade has attachment points for KMT mine clearing gear, for use when the blade is raised in the normal stowed position. Fuel cells cover almost the whole length of the right-hand fender, and the rear half of the left fender. The front half of the left fender appears to carry tool boxes.

    The outside of the fenders have rubber mud flaps about 10 cm deep...

    #Early model T-72 with turret reversed. Note smaller, narrower road wheels, smaller sprocket (12 teeth), greater number (6) of larger track support rollers, IR searchlight on left of main gun, and different bustle stowage than on new version. Greater number of stowage boxes around turret may also indicate less space in turret, perhaps due to size of early model's automatic loader.
    #The T-72 photographed 45 km West of Moscow, during a visit by the French Defense Minister in October. Points of special interest are the sectioned ammunition, shovel/dozer blade, add-on skirt plates and new 12.7 mm MG on the commander's cupola. Soviets claim 700 hp engine gives the 41t vehicle a max. speed of 100 km/h.
    #Crew members (below) are notably short, because of limited space, their heights ranging from 1 m 55 to 1 m 60 (5 ft to 5 ft 4 in).
    ======1031======
    ...running their whole length. Four light armour skirt plates can be fitted to quick attach points along the front half of each side. The plates are no more than 6 mm thick, are spring-loaded (presumably to allow the vehicle to brush past obstacles) and project at an angle of some 60°, when not chained back against the sides or swivelled upwards. They provide protection against HEAT rounds fired from the forward arc only, and probably have little effect against APFSDS, APDS and HESH.

    The engine and transmission are rear-mounted. Judging from the Red Square parade, the engine is remarkably smooth-running and smoke-free. The transmission drives the rear-mounted, 14-tooth sprocket which is  totally new. It engages between the rubber-bushed single pins of a new wide track running on 6 new and much larger road wheels covering almost the...

    #Command variant of early T-72, possibly T-72K, with large radio mast erected. Tank has to be stationary in this mode, since telescopic mast requires supporting stays pegged to ground. Also visible is small round hatch in rear centre of turret, possibly an ejection port for spent ammunition stub-cases. Two snorkels are carried on the turret bustle of this version (the one nearest the turret being for engine air, fitted at right rear corner of chassis), whilst new version has only the turret snorkel, indicating a possible engine change.
    #Command variant of early model T-72. Note two radio antennas (one for rear link) and fittings under the bow for KMT mine clearance equipment. Driver's hatch is pivoted open to the right. Photo clearly shows small road wheels and double-pin track of early model, both now changed.
    ======1032======
    ...whole truck width, plus the front idler wheel and at least 3 (probably 4) small truck support rollers inboard of the track teeth. The new sprocket and track were also fitted on a T-62 exhibited to the French visitors, providing commonality with the T-72. Suspension details are not clear from the photos, but certain dampers, visible on older models, seen absent.

    The claimed max. speed of 100 km/h seems very high, and expert observers estimate 60-70 km/h as being more realistic, given the weight of 41 t and engine power of 700 hp. They could be proved wrong, however.

    The rear of the T-72 hull is fitted for two 200 litre spare fuel drums, and a log for extracting the tank from a bogged down condition. Two cables are also carried at front and rear.

    Turret and armament
    The 2-man turret is centrally mounted and well shaped, being of cast steel (there is no sign of any special or spaced armour on the vehicle at all). As in the earlier versions, the commander's contra-rotating cupola is on the right, with the gunner’s hatch on the left.

    The commander's cupola has a small, forward hinged hatch with 2 rear-facing vision blocks, a small IR searchlight with, below it, an IR/daylight sight, and 2 forward-facing periscopes. It also mounts the new, gas-operated 12.7 mm machine gun which has brackets for a belted ammunition box on the right and for a small overhead reflex sight with a box cover. There is no certainty that the MG (which bears many similarities to the 7.62 mm FN MAG) can be operated remotely whilst closed down, since elevation appears to be manually controlled from the mount. In our photos, the MG is positioned in front of the right hand forward-looking periscope, on the cupola, but in the Red Square parade it was rotated on its ring to behind the cupola.

    The gunner's hatch is also forward-hinged. It has 2 forward-looking periscopes, a separate IR sight with its own small searchlight to the front left of the hatch, and further in front there is a box-like structure which may...

    #Rear view of the new T-72. Rear turret bustle box has overhang to permit engine access covers to be raised. Very clearly shown are the new, larger sprocket and road wheels, and the new single-pin track. Note absence of visible suspension dampers above rear road wheels, in contrast to earlier models. Turret is extremely low and squat, requiring crewmen to be of small size.
    #Rear view of T-62 shown to French visitors alongside T-72. Note fixed 115 mm ammunition and new design snorkel similar to T- 72's. Of greatest interest are the new sprocket, track and road wheels fitted to this vehicle. They appear identical to those of the new model T-72, greatly improving logistical support and cross-servicing. Black and white "patch" on fender is an NBC filter.
    #Side view of new model T-72 (foreground) with T-62 behind. A French Brigadier General is seen on the T-72 turret roof. Note difference in gun barrel length between the two tanks, and different cupola machine guns (T-72 has the new 12.7 mm MG, and the T-62 the old DShK 12.7mm). T-72's left side skirt plates are all chained back against fender except smaller front plate.
    ======1033======
    ...possibly house the optics of a laser rangefinder. However, the latter is at the left end of what appears to be the base of the Soviets' first stereoscopic rangefinder, the right-hand optics for this being to the front right of the commander's cupola.

    Behind the gunner's hatch are a rear-looking masked light (probably showing the tank's number to vehicles behind) and a rear-looking indicator light. Two new-design bustle boxes are fitted on the rear of the turret, a new design snorkel is carried at rear left, and there are empty brackets on the right side for two 12.7 mm ammunition boxes. Only one radio antenna is fitted, indicating that the tank battalion uses a single frequency band for all internal communications.

    To the front of the turret are the main gun, coaxial MG and main IR searchlight. The latter has been moved from the left side of the mantlet, on earlier models, to the right, outboard of the coaxial 7.62 mm weapon. Reason for the move may have been to prevent interference with the gunner's low-angle sight line, or because the searchlight's mechanical linkage is more easily accommodated on the right.

    The Russians have now confirmed the calibre of the main gun as 125 mm, and this is marked on the ammunition (photo). The tube projects 4.5 m from the mantlet cover, which is 69 cm deep. A thin thermal tube jacket of light alloy (probably aluminium) is fitted, and the fume extractor is a little over half-way down the barrel. There is no sign of any rifling at the muzzle, indicating a smooth bore.

    The 125 mm ammunition is of considerable interest, and is described in the captions to the close-up photos. Unlike that of the T-62 it is separated, and the absence of a fourth crewman tends to support previous reports that it is loaded automatically from a main magazine. This would have to be selective, since 3 ammunition types are carried. The cartridges are semi-combustible, with stub-cases.

    #Front and rear close-ups of cut-away 125 mm separated ammunition displayed on T-72 glacis. Front view above left shows, from left to right, Armour-Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) projectile in secondary cartridge; APFSDS semi-combustible primary cartridge; a new finned High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) projectile; the HEAT caitildge; a new finned High Explosive (HE) projectile; and the HE cartridge. Points of interest:
    APFSDS - Finned penetrator is guided in barrel not by full sabot but by prefractured ring sabot at top of combustible secondary cartridge, Latter contains long, hollow tube of booster propellant tied round penetretor to give uniform acceleration up to muizzle velocity of over 1,600 m/sec. 40° bores in sabot  ring allow some gas to escape forwards in tube to give rotation necessary for separation after muzzle exit. Separation in aided by air scoops round sabot front rim. Penetrator body measures some 595 mm long by about 48 mm diameter. This ratio of over 12:1 indicates use of tungsten carbide core material, gives good stability on impact, a wide margin for tensile strangth and effective penetration even at fairly high angles ol incidence.
    HEAT - Hollow charge cone is very deep (about 192 mm), explosive charge behind is tapered and a resonator surrounds the tip of the cone. Nose fuze has an ogive to impiove ballistic characteristics and tapered tube behind it probably helps to concentrate penetrating jet. Base fins are forward folded in top of cartridge when loaded.
    HE - Backward-folded base fins are contained in a stub case for loading on top of cartridge. Nose fuze appears to have variable time setting, enabling artillery-type ait burst.
    #Soviet General Pavlovsky explains T-72 details to French Defense Minister, Yvon Bourges and military aides. Note gun lube jacket; gunner's night sight and searchlight on turret root (right); and chained back skirt plates. Tube projecting into picture upper right is handle for commander's 12.7 mm machine gun, and vehicle in background is BRDM with sextuple Sagger anti-tank missile launcht, raised.
    #Rear light quarter view of T-72 with Yvon Bourgas behind. Note fuel cells on fender, armoured skirt plate mountings, turret bustle box and especially, the new 12.7 mm cupola machine gun. This has leaf iron sights, gas cylinder and regulator below banel, and feed tray high in the receiver. Ammunition box would be fitted on bracket to right of receiver. Mount appears to have 2 hydraulic elevating cylinders beneath gun, operated by hand crank on right. Double box on overhead bracket is thought to be a small reflex sight with cover open.
    ======1034======

     

     

    and some pics from it, photographed separately

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    same pics and drawings from IDR's article, of what actually was T-64, or may be T-64A, are available usually in somewhat better quality in pdfs of Armor magazine 1977-01-02 and 1978-01-02 (scanned by GoogleBooks and other institutions, and available online at hathitrust.org, and benning.army.mil and/or dvidshub.net, and/or there). 

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    Interestingly enough, the photos shown here in the famous IDR article are from the French delegation visit in October 1977, a month before the T-72's first appearance in Red Square...and over a year after the T-64A was first spotted in East Germany in September 1976. The article confirmed that the US and NATO had incorrectly labeled the T-64A, as the T-72.     

     

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  10. GLORIOUS T-14 ARMATA PICTURES.

    in Mechanized Warfare

    Posted

    Another bit of info regarding the T-14 Armata from 2016... 

     

    The producer is “considering” a tank variant armed with a 152mm cannon referred to as a “Heavy Assault Armored Vehicle” dubbed “The Tank Killer” by Russian media. According to the producer’s Deputy Director:

     

    “The 152mm caliber is pretty effective and doesn't require special ammo to deal with armor. A 152mm shell's kinetic energy is high enough to just blow a turret away. So this is a promising direction and we are considering it.”

  11. GLORIOUS T-14 ARMATA PICTURES.

    in Mechanized Warfare

    Posted

    The reality of the T-14 Armata is that it's the result of the long-standing Soviet/Russian desire to have a 152mm-armed tank. While it's unlikely that the entire fleet of T-14s (if there ever is a fleet), will be 152mm-armed versions, a number of 152mm-armed tanks deployed as tank destroyers is very possible. So, we might have two variants of the Armata; one 125mm-armed MBT and a "heavy" 152mm-armed tank destroyer. I remember reading somewhere that the Russians feel that a 152mm main gun should be able to physically defeat the target tanks structure...not necessarily penetrating the armor, but defeating the tank by brute force.        

     

    Here are a couple of quotes... 

     

    http://izvestia.ru/news/586485 (Translation)

     

    “Russian tank-based armored “Armata” demonstrated at the parade in honor of the 70th anniversary of the Victory in the Great Patriotic War in the future will get a new gun caliber 152 mm (2A83). We have to do with the outfit of the tank, which burns meter steel, will put on the “Armata” said, “Izvestia” in charge of the military-industrial complex Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin.

     

    In the parade were demonstrated tanks with a gun caliber 125 mm. Such tanks are first made available to the Ministry of Defense. But in subsequent batches will be a more powerful weapon.”

     

    http://www.irk.kp.ru/daily/26381.4/3259466/ (Translation)

     

    “The gun already exists. It was developed in the framework of development work on the tank "Object 195", many know him as the T-95. Now I can even tell you the brand of the gun - 2A83. It has been successfully tested, including new types of ammunition.” 

       

  14. T-80 Megathread: Astronomical speed and price!

    in Mechanized Warfare

    Posted

    One of the first good photos of a T-80BV to be released by the US/NATO back in the old days. When it first appeared, the story I heard was that in this particular case, a Soviet GSFG soldier wanted to show his girlfriend his tank...and allowed her to take photos of him in the driver seat. There is another version of this photo out on the Net with the boyfriend's face blocked-off. I can only imagine that there was hell to pay when this photo hit the street...    

     

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