Sturgeon Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 A big case of "what the fuck it this shit? It's all... different." I dunno, likely not. The Soviet Union cottoned pretty quickly to a lot of other weird crap, like tanks. Possibly a political kill, or funding ran out, or something. Or maybe it had no doctrinal niche, or was too expensive. Regardless, I feel like denying it as a technical achievement (and equivocating it with such stinkers as the Scotti Model X and Farquhar-Hill) is pretty awkwardly driven by a narrative where German supermen invent/perfect everything. That sort of thing definitely drives Karl, and it seems to bleed over to Ian, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C. Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Or maybe it had no doctrinal niche, or was too expensive. I find both of these to be very likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I find both of these to be very likely. I agree (many selfloader projects died due to lack of funding during that period), but there's a good chance that other factors were at play as well. Having said that, I don't really think it was the design's fault that killed the Fedorov, notwithstanding that just about any selfloader at that time would have been significantly more expensive to make in large numbers than a competing bolt-action. The Avtomats that were made saw use in both the Winter War and the GPW, so they clearly worked well enough that they were seen as useful items, despite using a nonstandard caliber. Add to that all the other aspects I was fawning over earlier, and you've got a pretty compelling case to be made that the Fedorov was a real "gun that could have been". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 If you still don't think the Fedorov is a big fucking deal, here's some specs Max sent me on an improved 1924 version: That is 4.1 kg (9.04 lb) unloaded, with bipod! Belesarius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I'm kind of liking the TFBers beating on JumpifSnotzero like he's a rented piñata.The "WHYDONTU MORTOR YOR FN49 LIKE A REAL OPERATOR" bit is classic. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/02/09/fn49-run-and-gun/#disqus_thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Yes, that's a great idea. Mortar a rifle that's known for the stock breaking at the wrist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belesarius Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Ok, question for the US folks. Legal full auto firearms, while not quite extinct as a species in Canada are so vanishingly rare as to be well past endangered. Real encounters are rare and hard to document. So what is the absolute minimum price for a firearm that is a ATF classified machine gun in the US? Cheapest price for a legal giggle switch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C. Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 You are looking at about 5-6k for your low end machineguns (MACs, Stens, Reisings, MK760s, Ingram M6). This man is THE guy when it comes to machineguns. His prices are high, but he sells them for full retail all the time: http://dealernfa.com/product-category/machine-guns/ If you see "pre sample" or "post sample" in the title, disregard that item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 I am glad Tim did a video on the Daewoo K2. It's an interesting rifle that acts as an attainable "might have been", being very close in concept to the Colt 703 fixed-piston AR variant, proposed as a fix to the initial teething troubles of the M16. And, of course, it's an AR with a folding stock before that was cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 #Iraq French AA-52 machine gun in Baghdad black market. 500 $.Probably taken from a Panhard VCR #LaNana @CTstudies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.E. Watters Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 I believe Tim got a few things wrong in his timeline. The original Daewoo K1A and K2 were caught by the GHW Bush import ban of 1989. This led to creation of the thumbhole stock models that were ultimately killed during the Clinton administration's tightening of the "Sporting Purposes" characteristics for importation.The South Korean and Singaporean governments each went to domestic designs in part due to the fact that they were not able to export their license-produced M16 rifles without the permission of Colt and the US State Department. And it didn't help that the US government caught each of them trying to dodge this requirement on multiple occasions. You'll note that Jim Sullivan moved to Singapore during the time that he designed the Ultimax 100 in an attempt to evade the State Department's weapon export restrictions. This gambit would no longer be legal. Sturgeon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Ok, question for the US folks. Legal full auto firearms, while not quite extinct as a species in Canada are so vanishingly rare as to be well past endangered. Real encounters are rare and hard to document. So what is the absolute minimum price for a firearm that is a ATF classified machine gun in the US? Cheapest price for a legal giggle switch? You are looking at about 5-6k for your low end machineguns (MACs, Stens, Reisings, MK760s, Ingram M6). This man is THE guy when it comes to machineguns. His prices are high, but he sells them for full retail all the time: http://dealernfa.com/product-category/machine-guns/ If you see "pre sample" or "post sample" in the title, disregard that item. I thought auto sears for FNCs were pretty cheap too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C. Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I thought auto sears for FNCs were pretty cheap too? They were cheap until about 2014 when the rumor of "more sears than guns" turned out to ge unsubstantiated. I bought 2 for 3k each back in the day and three FNCs for 3k each. Converted two and sold one last year for 10k. Now converted FNCs go for 12k+ and I havent seen a sear for sale in a while. Last I saw sold for 7k. I wrote an article once about how you could buy a sear and an FNC for 3k and have a 6k machinegun in 5.56, then time passed, values went up, and when I went to sell I had people sending me my old artice as a sort of "SEE, THIS GUY SAYS YOURE OVERPRICED!". When I said I wrote the article people got mad and walked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Oh yeah, sure, an innocent mistake, and not a SECRET MARKET MANIPULATION SCHEME TO DEPRIVE PEOPLE OF THEIR MACHINE GUNS! What is the story behind all the FNC auto sears anyhow? Also: FOR SHAME YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT THE MARS AUTOMATIC PISTOL FEEDS JUST LIKE THE BOBERG?! WHAT KIND OF GUN GEEK ARE YOU?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C. Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I hate making those videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Cross-section of the Mars pistol: The performance figures for the Mars cartridges are hilarious. Ian Hogg mentions one contemporary who described the Mars as less of a pistol and more of a "young cannon." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I hate making those videos. I want a Top Five Scout Rifles video next. We need more Top Five/Five Worst Arbitrary Definition videos!!! Edit: Although for the Scout Rifle, it would probably be Five Worst since the Scout Rifle concept was always pretty retarded and arbitrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted February 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Cross-section of the Mars pistol: The performance figures for the Mars cartridges are hilarious. Ian Hogg mentions one contemporary who described the Mars as less of a pistol and more of a "young cannon." I've heard Meplat describe it as "his trusty pocket Hiroshima.", right before pulling it out and using it to pink mist the skull of a copper wire thief through the the workshop wall with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 AK mags are heavy as snot, but you have to concede that as a result they have some interesting properties: http://www.guns.com/2016/02/11/alternative-uses-for-the-humble-ak-magazine-video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I am actually somewhat excited for a MAC video for once.But then, I have a special spot for cold weather testing. Belesarius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C. Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Filmed the Lebel run and gun yesterday. In WWI, if you had that gun you were so fucked. Blew through the mag and then single loaded like a damn Gras rifle. I now fully realize how seriously game changng clips were. Sturgeon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Nagao points out in one of his videos for TGW that most officers in WWI were not "gear" people, and the majority had never served in the ranks. Even if they had, it would have been with the Gras, probably not the Lebel. He describes them as thinking of the weapons just as "rifles", nothing more. So the difference between a G98 and a Lebel would have been lost on them. This explains an awful lot of the folly of the times, BTW. American attitudes during this period were already light-years ahead of their European counterparts, I think. One of the perks of an egalitarian society, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C. Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I'll certainly buy that explanation, knowing what little I do about the French military high command of that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C. Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Also, I was reading the Sturmgewehr book you lent me and I found some lovely information about uber mauser: Sturgeon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm_kruger Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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