Tied Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 The Chinese can be a stubborn bunch. Doing business with them is an absolute nightmare, and they have an exceptional amount of national pride. The Sino-Soviet split is certainly responsible for a lot of their unusual military decisions. Reguardless of their route at the hands of the border guards, at some ppimt practicalities must come to the surface for the Chinese. And unlike the Czech they had no problem making plenty of money off of copies of Soviet AKM well after their betrayal of Soviet Union Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Nixon swaying Mao's favor to the USA when he learned about the USSR wanting to hinder the PRC's nuclear arms development at the time also did alot. I mean, between the USA and the USSR/Russia always trying to win their favor, and yet never being full on allies, you can really see where exactly their distrust and stubbornness comes from considering how often they're caught in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tied Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 They didn't want to adpot the 5.45mm, they knew about it yeah, hell, they knew enough about it to help North Korea chamber new rifles in the design, they just chose not to use it themselves. (Those really odd helical mag AK 5.45 variants they use? you'll never guess who they got the technical information from.) Relations with the USSR/WP at the time were.... complicated. Huh, never knew they didnt devolope them on their own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tied Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Nixon swaying Mao's favor to the USA when he learned about the USSR wanting to hinder the PRC's nuclear arms development at the time also did alot. I mean, between the USA and the USSR/Russia always trying to win their favor, and yet never being full on allies, you can really see where exactly their distrust and stubbornness comes from considering how often they're caught in the middle. Bah, Soviet peoples did nothing to hinder their development it was Mao's prowding for a direct copy of the bomb that contributed to the split more than anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 No? Khrushchev basically did a flat out 180 on helping them after the great leap forward started and basically left them hanging when they initially agreed to help, leaving them to finish it alone, I'd be pretty pissed too. The USA and USSR tended to do this alot during the cold war to more then just the PRC when the direction of a nation was going in a way they didn't find favorable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tied Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 My assertions come straight from Khrushchev's autobiography Ukrainian statesmen would have no reason to lie to ole Tied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tied Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Doublepost delete this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Either way, if you wish to continue this, alls I ask can we please do it somewhere else? I don't mind political discussions (sometimes at least), but, I'd rather it not be in my thread about small arms. Contact me on Steam or, another thread or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tied Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Your not good at sarcasm are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I got you were joking with that, but I meant in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tied Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Bah, impossible to sepreate politics from recent history Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Anyway, one thing I can say about this discussion is that it does disprove the bullshit theory that the DBP-87 and DBP-88 were designed as gerpersherrs like some internet demagogues like to claim, is that you can simply look at the 2 rounds they were examining and had access to to replace the 7.62x39mm and draw your own conclusions (well, that and the actual design requirements, but more on that in a second.) They were looking at the 5.45x39mm (mostly 7N6 and small amounts of 7N6M later), to the point they knew enough about it to aid North Korea in designing arms chambered in it, and the other round they were looking at was, big surprise, the 5.56x45mm M193 and M855, the fact Alex C even has a Type-81 chambered in it shows they were at least aware of it (aswell as some AK variants that also got imported), yes, they were export models, but they had enough data on it. They wanted a round similar to these 2 rounds, a small caliber round that was accurate with a high velocity and flat trajectory that was lighter then the 7.62x39mm (I'm sure this concept is starting to sound familiar right about now, it sure as hell went over the heads of gerpersherr fanatics though), but, they wanted their own proprietary caliber as opposed to these 2 existing ones that performed better on paper ballistics wise to actually make it worth it (The difference in power isn't really significant, but sometimes you just have to do something to appease those higher up then you), It wasn't until later that they thought that some, but not all arms chambered in 7.62x54mmR could also be replaced with this round, but this was an incidental after effect. TLDR: People who claim the 5.8x42mm is a purpose built gerpersherr are full of shit and it annoys me when this is repeated as truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tied Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 What kind of retard would think that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 What kind of retard would think that? http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/main.asp?webtag=autogun&nav=start&prettyurl=%2Fautogun&gid=2056491392 Take your pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Also, Just for posterity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 That Dremel is also handy if you want to give your rare imported rifle some authentic looking "battle damage" and then write a sob story about how the guy who carried it got hit by shrapnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 That Dremel is also handy if you want to give your rare imported rifle some authentic looking "battle damage" and then write a sob story about how the guy who carried it got hit by shrapnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Fight Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 That Dremel is also handy if you want to give your rare imported rifle some authentic looking "battle damage" and then write a sob story about how the guy who carried it got hit by shrapnel. No, because that implies that the other side is human. It'd be more like "Pre-ban Vietnam bringback!!! RARE!!! NO PAYPAL" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C. Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 You know I only took the dremel to the magazine right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 GOD WAY TO trigger my autism VIOLATE MY SAFE SPACE ALEX! Requesting "Dremel" to be a censored word in here. punishable by banishment to Tumblr for violation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Fight Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 You know I only took the dremel to the magazine right? The way you posted seemed ambiguous, but i erred on the side of you not being stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C. Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 The way you posted seemed ambiguous, but i erred on the side of you not being stupid. I can assure you I am stupid, just not quite that stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.E. Watters Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Pros use Foredom rotary tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 So all the type 81s you see in odd places like Sudan are 7.62mm. When did the Chinese start making 5.56mm export versions of their stuff? With the adoption of 5.8x42mm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C. Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 They made tons of 5.56 AK variants (type 84 rifles) for export to the civilian market in the US. Apparently only 3 type 81s in 5.56 are confirmed to exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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