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The Small Arms Thread, Part 8: 2018; ICSR to be replaced by US Army with interim 15mm Revolver Cannon.


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Let's all take a trip back to the late 1970s and early 1980s.  This was the time of punk.  This was the time of despair.   Punk was all about minimalism; strip everything down to a few chords, wear

Stechkin's Abakan (TKB-0146). https://www.kalashnikov.ru/abakan-stechkina-avtomat-stechkina-tkb-0146/        Bullpup, system of "recoil impulse shifted in time", 2-stage

So what, my 5.56 rounds are groundbreaking too if I shoot the dirt.

"It is recommended to go with 28 rounds."

What, is this 1968?

No, if it were 1968, they'd be recommending 18 rds.  The recommendation originated from ham-handed troops overstuffing their 20rd magazines.  By removing one or two rounds, you at least knew that you didn't have more than 20rds loaded.  I always find it odd that people recommend the 20rd magazines as being more reliable when those were the primary issue magazines when the XM16E1 and M16A1 was performing at its worst.

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No, if it were 1968, they'd be recommending 18 rds.  The recommendation originated from ham-handed troops overstuffing their 20rd magazines.  By removing one or two rounds, you at least knew that you didn't have more than 20rds loaded.  I always find it odd that people recommend the 20rd magazines as being more reliable when those were the primary issue magazines when the XM16E1 and M16A1 was performing at its worst.

 

Good point, Daniel.

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I am amazed at James' ability to feign enthusiasm for yet another bland AR-15:

 

Saying you feel "honored" to do a T&E gives me the heebie jeebies. The very first T&E I ever did was actually on the Hexmag, and I asked Steve the Editor about our procedure for this. He said never to thank a manufacturer, since you are doing them a favor, not the other way around.

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"We just dinged them!"

 

I see that Cobalt Kinetics is digging into some old ideas.  Interesting mechanism.

 

 

As you can see at 1:00 in this video, the EM-2 (at least later versions of it) had a mechanism whereby a lever in the top of the magazine would release the bolt hold open when a loaded magazine was inserted.

 

4672115500_b7722d9f76_b.jpg

 

The bulge at the top rear of the magazine houses a lever that activates the bolt release, unless the follower is at the top of the magazine (i.e. the magazine is empty).

 

Cobalt seems to use standard mags, so I'm not sure how theirs works.

 

Much higher quality version of the above video:

 

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DOMINATING
 

Seems like wearing magazines over your level IIIA body armor might not be such a bad idea, but hooboyee, I tell you what I would not want to wear mags like armor without that backing.

 

The AK rounds somehow not working as well confuses me, but I wonder if that wasn't because of an especially hot round, or differences in the projectiles' trajectories through their respective magazines.

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I am amazed at James' ability to feign enthusiasm for yet another bland AR-15:

 

Saying you feel "honored" to do a T&E gives me the heebie jeebies. The very first T&E I ever did was actually on the Hexmag, and I asked Steve the Editor about our procedure for this. He said never to thank a manufacturer, since you are doing them a favor, not the other way around.

One of a few reasons why I'm not big on James' videos. I really can't work up the enthusiasm for Yet Another black polymer rifle. That, and the videos have an obnoxious habit of just being minutes of him standing in front of the camera and just holding the gun out on front of him for long periods of time. I liked his Black Friday video, though.

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Used to have about 200 rounds of this stuff for my Yugo M70B1 AK:

 

 



I wanted them because I wanted to be able to shoot through a Honda... For... Reasons.

 

I shot a few rounds of it at some barriers, and it performed really well. After I sold my Yugo, I sold the API for a nice little profit. Wish I hadn't, since that stuff's extremely rare now.

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I am amazed at James' ability to feign enthusiasm for yet another bland AR-15:

 

Saying you feel "honored" to do a T&E gives me the heebie jeebies. The very first T&E I ever did was actually on the Hexmag, and I asked Steve the Editor about our procedure for this. He said never to thank a manufacturer, since you are doing them a favor, not the other way around.

Made it to the 3 minute mark before stopping.

 

Just. So. Generic.

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Oh look, I finally caused some butthurt with the Assault Rifle post:

 

Editors,

This entire post crosses over your laudable self-declared line about firearms, not politics. Perhaps this one would have been better posted on Nathaniel's blog not here.

It's impossible to get into labels and descriptions of what is/isn't, should/shouldn't be referred to (by whom? in what context?) as an assault rifle, without getting into politics.

Now, if we wanted to have an interesting debate in the article or in the comments about how the military has changed its definition of what the phrase means, that might be interesting if academic. But if you post something like this on a site like this, that covers current events in the industry and around the world, it's a slippery slope to the obvious problem that we're a long way from the tractor shed in Stalingrad when Ivan and Jerry were actually duking it out with assault rifles (some, anyway) and the sad reality is most Americans associate the phrase with active shooters here at home these days. And that is a topic you have correctly chosen to avoid covering here on TFB.

It's not my job as a reader to tell you guys how to do your jobs as editors, but I think this post crosses some line that if you stand back and think about it for a minute, you'll probably agree you don't want to cross. The whole point of the post (from the headline, to the graphics, to the cheezy self-congratulatory tone) is off base.

We're not retiring any vocab. If you want to do that, go get a job in government and waste the rest of your life trying to ban words. The world doesn't work like that. Neither does the internet. If what you are suggesting is self-censorship by enthusiasts and gun owners, you ought to know better. Where's that stop? Burkhas? Burning books? Live and let live and back off with telling other people how they ought to. It's a free country. You'd think the 2nd Ammendmentists of all constituencies would understand the pointlessness -- the wrongness -- of telling other Americans what they ought to think, and say, and do, and write. Let alone, each other.

Aim higher.

 

 

 

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DOMINATING

 

Seems like wearing magazines over your level IIIA body armor might not be such a bad idea, but hooboyee, I tell you what I would not want to wear mags like armor without that backing.

 

The AK rounds somehow not working as well confuses me, but I wonder if that wasn't because of an especially hot round, or differences in the projectiles' trajectories through their respective magazines.

The second option. 

 

If the round strikes the body of a cartridge square on it will have the minimum travel through material and deflection to contend with. If it strikes the side of a bullet it will be the opposite case.

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The second option. 

 

If the round strikes the body of a cartridge square on it will have the minimum travel through material and deflection to contend with. If it strikes the side of a bullet it will be the opposite case.

 

I should have said "AK magazine". Wouldn't the AK magazine work better, the steel being tougher and thicker than aluminum, and there being more volume of case, propellant, and bullet present?

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I should have said "AK magazine". Wouldn't the AK magazine work better, the steel being tougher and thicker than aluminum, and there being more volume of case, propellant, and bullet present?

Possibly, but you wouldn't be able to tell from one or two shots because of how variable the overall defeat mechanism is.

 

You'd need to do this one a bunch of times to get an idea of what the important factor for reducing penetration is - again, my hunch is that it is a combination of striking an angled surface and having a penetration path which goes through more material.

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Possibly, but you wouldn't be able to tell from one or two shots because of how variable the overall defeat mechanism is.

 

You'd need to do this one a bunch of times to get an idea of what the important factor for reducing penetration is - again, my hunch is that it is a combination of striking an angled surface and having a penetration path which goes through more material.

 

Right, no, I agree with you. I'm just saying the AK mags, at least at first glance, should average better according to that metric.

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I suspect the math would be similar to the design in perforated armor in AFVs.  You would want a design that offers a high probability of the bullet hitting something really sloped and hard, which means "tuning" the armor geometry for certain threat calibers.

 

I predict that a GPC in 6.5mm will offer the best protection.

 

Seriously though, I wonder if perforated armor has been looked at for body armor.  The protection would be rather different.  Instead of a heavy plate that absolutely for sure will stop certain threats, you'd have a much lighter, much bulkier plate that has a high probability of stopping certain threats.

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Apparently, this is a comment by Wulfgar that was baleeted by Phil:
 

Nathaniel you would be fun on a night out drinking:)
 
"Less Filling", NO,"Taste Great. 
Me: Stg is the best military advancement in small arms in the last century.
Nathanial: Your a hack, it was mildly important. Where did you learn small arms history toys are us? 
Me: Bite me!
Nathaniel: There is no such thing as an intermediate cartridge, time to get rid of the assault rifle term.
Me: Your on drugs, that is a term standardized by the Germans with their development of the STG, read any book on the subject you might learn something. It is obvious what a,intermediate cartridges and battle cartridge are 
you mindless twit. An intermediate cartridge falls between a pistol and 
rifle cartridge.. Any cartridge that was developed to shoot within most combat distances 0 to 300 yards and be controllable on full auto is an intermediate cartridge. The 3030 is an intermediate cartridge compared to the 3006
Nathaniel: So the 3030 was developed for full auto, head turning side to side eyes rolling.
Me: No, I was describing the difference in power factors, Einstein.
Nathaniel: So if you shoot the 113gr. 7.62X51 CETME cartridges in a G3 the G3 becomes an assault rifle? 
Me: No it is a battle rifle with under powered ammunition.
Nathaniel: That is just what you used as a description for an intermediate cartridge you f%#%ing brain dead abortion. 
Me: That's enough! I shove you
Nathaniel: shoves me.
 
People screaming, things breaking and sirens 

 

 

I don't remember which twit Wulfgar is, does anyone else?

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Anyone with the name "wolf" and especially "wulf" in their username should automatically be banned from posting. Just my opinion.

 

Its right up there with XX__, SS, or any german tank name

 

its not hard to tell, especially with the last too, what branch of the sanity tree they are picking leaves off of 

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