Ulric Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 16 minutes ago, Ramlaen said: Could he have bought a semi auto version of something belt fed and returned it to full auto? Semi auto belt fed and full auto belt fed are completely different beasts inside. The operate fundamentally differently. Full auto belt fed almost always fire from an open bolt, semi auto fire from a closed bolt. Ramlaen and Sturgeon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scolopax Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Sturgeon said: Yeah, it occurred to me that, uh, not everyone here has played with those cranks. They are one of those things that sound flipping awesome until you actually try them. Then you find out they're lame, and you can get a higher rate of fire just shooting semiauto. Do bump fire stocks fall into this same category? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, Sturgeon said: Yeah, it occurred to me that, uh, not everyone here has played with those cranks. They are one of those things that sound flipping awesome until you actually try them. Then you find out they're lame, and you can get a higher rate of fire just shooting semiauto. The only semi-autos we have legal access to are .22 rifles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Scolopax said: Do bump fire stocks fall into this same category? Bump fire stocks are slightly more consistent, but you can't use them prone/supported, and good fucking luck bumping together a 100 round string. 10 rounds in a row is tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, Ulric said: Semi auto belt fed and full auto belt fed are completely different beasts inside. The operate fundamentally differently. Full auto belt fed almost always fire from an open bolt, semi auto fire from a closed bolt. Right, it's way easier to convert an AR-15 to full auto than it is a semiauto belt fed. And it's nontrivial with the AR-15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 It's conceivable that he did use cranks and just connected them to an electric motor. But that amounts to the same thing: Planning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Willy Brandt said: Can you shoot a bump fire on a tripod? No. In order for bump fire to work, a gun has to be free to recoil in space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, Sturgeon said: It's conceivable that he did use cranks and just connected them to an electric motor. But that amounts to the same thing: Planning. By the way possessing such a device is highly illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xlucine Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 41 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: The only semi-autos we have legal access to are .22 rifles. Also shotguns IIRC, as long as they don't hold too many rounds. 35 minutes ago, Sturgeon said: No. In order for bump fire to work, a gun has to be free to recoil in space. Some kind of slide with a spring, so the gun recoils along rails (that are fixed on the tripod)? AFAIK, bump-fire stocks are just normal stocks with the firearm loose on rails so it can be moved relative to the trigger finger. Making some kind of rail system to achieve a bump fire tripod is way off on the effort:reward ratio, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Those too, on a firearms licence (as opposed to a shotgun licence) there is no restriction on ammo capacity (IIRC it's only three rounds on a shotgun licence), a friend has just installed an eleven round tube on his semi-auto.....Not sure about the rules for external magazines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 38 minutes ago, Sturgeon said: By the way possessing such a device is highly illegal. I'm thinking that if they had numerous rifles, he just new-york reloaded an electric device in the room. Again, planning. Not a usual MO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 16 minutes ago, Xlucine said: Also shotguns IIRC, as long as they don't hold too many rounds. Some kind of slide with a spring, so the gun recoils along rails (that are fixed on the tripod)? AFAIK, bump-fire stocks are just normal stocks with the firearm loose on rails so it can be moved relative to the trigger finger. Making some kind of rail system to achieve a bump fire tripod is way off on the effort:reward ratio, of course. You could contrive something, but you can't just mount a gun to a tripod conventionally and make it work. But again, there's no way to get the effect scumbag got without much more planning and effort than we've historically seen with rampage shooters. Scumbag's whole MO, the target choice, venue, time, firing position, weapons, were extremely well-thought-out. It's very strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 10 minutes ago, Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect said: I'm thinking that if they had numerous rifles, he just new-york reloaded an electric device in the room. Again, planning. Not a usual MO. Yeah, that's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 I am not going to link Solomon because I don't want to give him extra traffic, but he has an 'inter-office communication' stating the guy fired 1000+ rounds and had a belt fed machine gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 This summary of events from LA Times seems comprehensive: http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-las-vegas-deadly-shooting-20171002-story.html But it still doesn't make any goddam sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Just now, Ramlaen said: I am not going to link Solomon because I don't want to give him extra traffic, but he has an 'inter-office communication' stating the guy fired 1000+ rounds and had a belt fed machine gun. Like he says he has a guy, or he actually has a source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter_Sobchak Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Personally, I will be withholding judgement until I hear Alex Jone's take on events. I am sure that he will have "the truth." Sgt.Squarehead, Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect and Sturgeon 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, Sturgeon said: Like he says he has a guy, or he actually has a source? A "little birdy" and a cell phone picture of the communication. No proof of authenticity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted October 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 To me, the fact that he had the know how to plan out this event, knowing that his hotel room had a perfect two way kill zone into the arena and the lead up to this is even more baffling than the weapons and how he got them. How does an accountant/real estate investor think like that? Howd he get the training to keep those weapons going full cyclic for - I guess - 70 minutes now? Why did he plan this while his girlfriend or whatever is overseas? Why a country music venue filled with off duty first responders and army vets? And we've been hearing stuff about explosives, him setting up cameras in the hotel. This is surreal. Even not taking into account conspiracy theories kicking around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said: Personally, I will be withholding judgement until I hear Alex Jone's take on events. I am sure that he will have "the truth." "antifa" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belesarius Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Nate, what parts are needed and how much work is it to actually convert an AR to full auto? I'm under the impression you'd need a trigger pack, and need to do some drilling and milling out part of the receiver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, Ramlaen said: A "little birdy" and a cell phone picture of the communication. No proof of authenticity. Post the photo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Belesarius said: Nate, what parts are needed and how much work is it to actually convert an AR to full auto? I'm under the impression you'd need a trigger pack, and need to do some drilling and milling out part of the receiver? You need a new hammer, an auto sear (which is illegal unless registered by an SOT, or a legacy transferable), and a milling machine or a drill press (which is hokey, but can work). Plus other machine tools and measuring instruments and stuff. So nontrivial, but a handy person with some machines could do it without too much trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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