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Sturgeon's House


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Posts posted by Militarysta

  1. 23 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

       I guess only our Polish superhero, @Militarysta, can give an answer for those questions above my post.


    To the rescue!



    also ERAWA have some sort of rubber outer pads ?

    Yes, ERAWA-2 casettes are covered by 4mm special absorber layer (1K2KS and 1KF2KS absorber) whit mass 6kg/m2 and able to protect against radar working in band X and Ku whit f=8-16GHz. On typical PT-91 sucht absorber cover circa 20m2 and achive reduce detecting range at 50 to 60% for typical conditions.


    btw is there live fire(tank firing at target with

    ERA, or tank with ERA) of tank 120-125mm HEAT on ERAWA ? not static test when they install HEAT near ERA cassete and detonate it

    Yes, on Ukarine in 2016 (tests for other client) when ERAWA-2 outperform Knive ERA vs HJ-8, RPG-29 and PG-7VR and BK-14M.  Sorry, no details couse all is classified still :(


  2. In some way funny but it's seems that Abrams are seriously consider for polish army...


    11 Armoured Cav. Div. HQ told to brigades that in December will be finall decision about take ca.240 M1 Abrams. I'sholud be sceptic but source is rather good.

    Abrams should be taken by two brigades: 10Armoured Cav Brig and 34 Armoured Cav Bde. Still Im doubt but knowing this goverment - it's possible...


  3. 19 hours ago, SH_MM said:

    Mine protection plate of the Puma. It is either the upside down or the iimage is mirrored.



    It is also confirmed that the Puma uses NERA in the hull front and parts of the hull sides.


    Well in SPz Puma even hot air exhaust is made by double slopped NERA:











    About month ago I looked very cearfully on Shutzpanzer Puma on Ostrava NATO days :-) Lets's sey that is  better protected then I suspected. Mucht better. Talks whit crew was very interesting too.


    In fact for upper front hull part SC jet or 30-40mm KE rod must overcome 2 or 3 slopped on 18@ NERA plates, then overcome slopped front plate (LOS ca.50-60mm) then fly trought engine comparment and finnaly overcome 20mm bulkhead before crew comparment.  In lower hull we have two slopped 15mm plates whit primary engine fuel tank (50L) then we have huge slab of metal - HSWL and MTU engine and then 20mm bulkhead.

    IMHO Puma front is between 200-250mm vs KE penetrator from medium caliber automatic canons. In case SC warhed lower hull is less protected but upper hull - it shoud be able to stop any 80's ATGM without precursor and propably RPG-28 and PzF-3T frontally. A lot of NERA and huge space is nice protection IMHO.    

    Couple photos:

    Engine compartment - look at triple NERA layers:




    NeRa or NxRA everywhere...:



    Here is visible bulkhead thickenss:



    And chamber for 50L fuel tank and doubla slopped ca.15mm plates:



  4. 6 hours ago, Jackvony said:

    I can try to take more pictures today, especially to compare with photos of M829A3. I mentioned the hypothesis stated earlier in this thread that the datalink is used to program some kind of precursor to fly infront of the round to defeat heavy ERA to the Master Sergeant in charge of the display. He asked me if my parents worked for the military and when I said no, shook his head, smiled, and told me I knew too much. I know this is "heresay" but to me, it's pretty good confirmation you guys are on the right track.


    And and that this info's came public due to sevral polish military journalist in 2015 ;-)


    More seriously - sucht german patent:



    Show this idea:




    When we are talking sevral years ago the only posiblities to overcome sucht thick and multi-ERA-layerd armour like on Oplot-M (whit some consist Lmax for western 120mm ammo) was to change idea of the attack, and infos about data-link for M829E4, Nexter OLF-F1NG, and...KE2020 whare some aditional help to think how to hell it could work.

    And really the only resonable option is detached during fly precursor -in fact it can be very elegeant and simply solution but onnly whit state-of-art metalurgy. Just metal  conection beetween main rod and precursor which overheat during fly  lets go "precursor" - rest is pure areodynamic or in more complex way - small air breakers somwhere near fins or tracer - just tiny ones to very small incarase aerodynamic resistance.

  5. From my article about 2AV armour.


    Many thanks for all peoples who help me whit this subject ;-)


    2AV armour:

    Turret armour citadele:




    turret special armour:





    hull in 1st version:





    B&V test station, simmilar armour was choosen for 2A0:





    Compare wester and estern tank but important notice - in my article is almoust exatly the same as @SH_MM mentioned above:


    Btw. while the Brits assessed the Type B armor to provide protection equal to 350 mm steel against KE rounds, they also said that according to Germany it stopped 125 mm steel APFSDS (with WC slug), which according to the Brits could penetrate 380 mm of steel armor at 1,000 m and 420 mm point-blank. So protection is very variable, always depending on what round is used as reference. DM23 (with 420 mm RHA penetration at 200 m) was considered to be equal to Soviet 125 mm tungsten APFSDS with 475 mm penetration into steel point-blank and 440 mm at 1,000 m






    And  AT weapons and sevral APFSDS munition:








  6. 5ae72d0019ee865c008b468c-750-375.jpg


    OK, so Poland is sending LOR for 60 Javelin FGM-147F/G CLU and 180 missailes as first bath.


    Javeli will go to Terytorial Forces not Armed Forces. Whole need is ca.255 Javelin CLU and 1,5k missailes + other ATGM.


    All is based here:



    Right now Terytorial Forces had 17 brigades till december 2019.

    In eacht brigade we have: 5 infanty bde, and independent support company. In theory finall modell will look like this:


    Terytorial Forces Infanty Bde: all :18 ATGM's

    1st inf reg in support platoon - 3x ATGM Javelin

    2th inf reg in support platoon - 3x ATGM Javelin

    3th inf reg in support platoon - 3x ATGM Javelin

    4th inf reg in support platoon - 3x ATGM Javelin

    5th  inf reg in support platoon - 3x ATGM Javelin 

    1st independent support platoon - 3x Spike ATGM


    So whole terytorial forces need at least 255 Javelin ATGM and 51 Spike LR ATGM. Till now this 60 CLU and 180 missiles will be placed "temporary" on level "independent support platoon" but finall modell is like above.



    Other news in case ATGM in Poland:


    Polish WITU is developing "Mosqito" ATGM system - it will be ready in 2022 whit unit cost (ATGM) ca 75k $. 80% components is producet in Poland.









    And from the other side - Telesystem-Mesko is ending "The Pirate" system so laser guided ATGM:




    Whit very interesting "APSproof" laser guidence system.

  7. 47 minutes ago, Gun Ready said:

     Do they really have a chance to get 2A6 from Finland or Portugal and are they able to pay for?

    No idea :) There was a some talks on rather low level industry-industry and army-industry  but whole talk was rather "if we then you can..". More or les low level claimed that 2A7V will be more cost effective solution then upgrade 2A6 and possible both countries will sell their tanks if they will buy new Leopard 2A7. As I know they are some aditional law resons why both countries may be forced to sell 2A6 and buy new 2A7 but I don't know details.

  8. My all dear friends,

    first of all - polish MoD mr Błaszczak is lying when he only open his mounth. The same PiS (Law and Justice party) goverment. This is faritails propose only by parlement election this outum in Poland. They will be no new tank in possible to recoginze future in Poland - 2PL, 2A5 after small upgrade and just refresh T-72M1 and thats all. Poland will take Finish 2A6 and Protugaleese if those countres will sell those tanks. And thats all. You must understand that this goverment is lying whole time and sucht "declaracton of interest" is only bubble talks to deluge all around - german partenrs, EU industry, polish soliders and...people before parlament election. Whole goverment narration is about "building strong army" whit 4th division, unit deploy to est, taking US forcet to Poland and tehnical modernisation of the Polish Army. Inn all aspect is low-cost shit. Sorry for talk this straight. In case tanks - all buble talk about "super duper IVgen German-French=Polish tank"  is only to deluge that will be done more then...to small refresh 230 T-72M1 and 148 Leopard 2PL (and this program is totall disaster right now). 

  9. 3 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

       Possible layout of T-14 frontal armor







    Im seriously doutbt if this layout is true:


    1) Russian tank developers are definetly not idiot and sucht layout is pure stupidyty

    2) Modern ERA like Relikt and newer solution need space after it's module to end "dezintegration" of long rods - in upper part in sucht layout we haven't space for this

    3) it's seems that LOS of hull front is smaller 800mm IMHO it's close to 650mm.


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