The Small Arms Thread, Part 8: 2018; ICSR to be replaced by US Army with interim 15mm Revolver Cannon.

[Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect]

Well Dirty Harry doesn't seem to be past the art of lying, he forgot the .50 GI can be chambered in custom revolvers.

 

.50 GI chambered SAA. 

 

The shortbus of the revolver world. 

[EnsignExpendable]

This still counts as small, right? 

 

[Bronezhilet]

First battalion of Special Forces consisting of 60 fighters graduate in the Self Defence Forces of Rojava, Efrîn canton.

[Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect]

Dude in the back, left-most, what SMG is that? And does he know what year it is?

[Sturgeon]

Beretta M12.

Also, holy shit I just got an email forwarding someone claiming EPR rounds are destructive devices and that posting about them is a national security breach.

[Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect]

Beretta M12.

Also, holy shit I just got an email forwarding someone claiming EPR rounds are destructive devices and that posting about them is a national security breach.

You gotta give us the full quote. This guy sounds like a moron. 

[Khand-e]

Beretta M12.

Also, holy shit I just got an email forwarding someone claiming EPR rounds are destructive devices and that posting about them is a national security breach.

 

How did Brock7142 get your email address?

[Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect]

Someone drew a caricature of Colli.

 

 

[LostCosmonaut]

Beretta M12.

Also, holy shit I just got an email forwarding someone claiming EPR rounds are destructive devices and that posting about them is a national security breach.

 

Was it from someone is Jersey? There's a gun shop near my parents that refuses to sell ARs because owning an AR-15 is illegal and everyone else who sells them is going to be arrested, leaving this guy the only gun seller in the state.

[Donward]

This still counts as small, right? 

 

Are AK-47s made by Slavic leprechauns or something?

[roguetechie]

To be fair on the whole bore axis thing, a low enough bore axis in conjunction with a pistol specifically designed to take advantage of it can actually provide real and tangible benefits for the user.

This is why things like hammerli .22 target pistols and stupidly expensive hand crafted and bespoke European pistols in larger center fire chamberings often sport very low bore axes.

There's actually a pistol "design" that I hope to someday do an actual real and working version of one or both of the embodiments shown in the patent and nonfunctional display models the designer showed at the shot show around 2 decades ago. The "designer" was a character named Raphial Morgado, he's since moved on to flogging his Massive Yet Tiny engine. Just like his pistol "designs" and the "revolutionary" ammunition he "invented" to fire out of it the engine is not only vaporware, but also far from a new original or "revolutionary" concept.

In the case of his ammunition concept, it was just a modernized and smokeless powder using ripoff of the rocket ball... Except for the whole thing where rocket ball ammunition actually works.

The two versions of the pistol he was intending to fire the ammunition from is actually the interesting part. (Taking what's in the patent application and turning it into a functional firearm which uses standard non caseless ammunition will obviously involve a nearly complete redesign of course but the resulting guns could potentially be interesting or even really awesome)

Basically though the pistols have their detachable box or tube magazine above and parallel to the gun barrel with the cartridge bases down. This makes for a potentially extremely tiny package theoretically making something with glock 17 magazine capacity and barrel length in damn near single stack glock 380 size envelope!

Or, in the tube magazine version which is meant to fold in half for concealment you're looking at single stack glock .380 barrel and ammunition capacity in a package almost as small as the absurd .22 magnum NAA derringer revolver.

You can probably see why the thought of this excites me...

If someone pulled it off and got it to work well and etc it really could be very useful, especially for issue to deployed soldiers as an always on them defense against the whole green on blue / sudden jihad syndrome bullshit that is really the only reason left to keep in inventory and issue pistols to western military personnel.

[Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect]

Rapid and Timed fire events in Olympic bullseye uses low bore axis .22 LRs to great effect. I shot Bullseye for Texas A&M university for a few years and used primarily Walther and Hammerli magazine-forward .22's with crazy grips. And when you've got 5 seconds for 5 shots, that bore axis comes into play. 

 

Other than that, IPSC and 3-gun makes bore axis an issue. My CZ has a fairly low bore axis, so it's fine. Maybe that's one of the reasons I never saw that many Sigs in production, limited, or open classifications. 

[Donward]

To be sure, Olympic and competition shoots where trained athletes compete for years with tens of thousands of hours of training and where competitions are won by fractions of an inch and second with custom built guns, bore axis becomes critical. But for the average shooter, it doesn't matted as much whether a Glock, Beretta, Sig, 1911 or whatever has a higher or lower bore axis.

[Sturgeon]

To be sure, Olympic and competition shoots where trained athletes compete for years with tens of thousands of hours of training and where competitions are won by fractions of an inch and second with custom built guns, bore axis becomes critical. But for the average shooter, it doesn't matted as much whether a Glock, Beretta, Sig, 1911 or whatever has a higher or lower bore axis.

I strongly disagree. SIGs suck for quick fire because of their bore axis.

I dunno why revolver people are so sensitive about bore axis, because revolvers don't actually have very high axes.

[Khand-e]

Speaking of Bore axis and company fanboys I hate, here's yet another group of SIG fanboys crying at how much betterer and gooderer the P320 is over the Glock. (Funny how SIG had to make a clone of their design to comete though, hmmm...) and how it will simply be due to military laziness in advance when Glock wins the M9 replacement.

 

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/01/05/tfbtv-beretta-m9-us-militarys-sidearm/

 

My favorite.

 

Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad Anonymoose • 2 hours ago

The P320 is a superior handgun even without the interchangeable grip feature.

Glocks excellent at being sufficient. and when youre buying 250k+, the contract pricing is very attractive.

 

----

 

I bought a P320 before ever buying a Glock, then I bought a Glock, now I own 2 of them and sold the P320 a while ago wishing I never bought it in the first place.

 

Clearly its the bettererest though because it's a Glock with SIGs name on the gun instead of a Glock with Glocks name on the gun.

 

Though, It baffles me how SIG fanboys used to hate the concept of Glocks, but when SIG makes their own to try and beat them at their own game and fails, It's some revolutionary design thats the bestest ever!

[Khand-e]

Also, holy shit I can post on TFB again.

[Donward]

Also, holy shit I can post on TFB again.

Office Pool on the next TFB lifetime ban for Mech begins now.

 

Place yer bets!

 

Place yer bets!

[Donward]

I strongly disagree. SIGs suck for quick fire because of their bore axis.

I dunno why revolver people are so sensitive about bore axis, because revolvers don't actually have very high axes.

Oh pish posh. It's not "sensitive". It's of little concern whatsoever.

 

It's just that when you consider a weapon's weight, caliber, bullet grain and powder load, action, grip size, grip shape, barrel length, whether the barrel is ported, trigger type, trigger angle and whether someone has large, strong hands, weak wrists, or little piggy fingers, and the physical condition of the shooter, bore axis comes way down on the bottom of that list. I've fired a couple Colt 1911s including my step-grandfather's WW2 bring-home. I've fired fired my step-dad's West Germany .45 Sig. Pretty much equal in terms of "muzzle flip" all things considered.

 

Sure, if I was a competive shooter, I'd care more. But as an "average Joe", bore axis of little concern. But maybe I say that because I'm 6'2" and 215 pounds of gristle and have a vice grip for hands.

[Khand-e]

Office Pool on the next TFB lifetime ban for Mech begins now.

 

Place yer bets!

 

Place yer bets!

 

Well, at least you did a takedown on people who are loincloth on head wearing retards who can't figure out how to use a slide safety for me.

 

Hell, I STILL remember the guy who flipped his shit at the concept when I showed him that the FN FNX-45 Tactical's safety (and the rest of the FNP and FNX family that I know of for that matter) also doubled as a decocker, like this was some space magic jesus himself had just invented and put into a gun before, who has EVER heard of a safety AND decocker on a gun? black magic!

[Donward]

Well, at least you did a takedown on people who are loincloth on head wearing retards who can't figure out how to use a slide safety for me.

 

Hell, I STILL remember the guy who flipped his shit at the concept when I showed him that the FN FNX-45 Tactical's safety (and the rest of the FNP and FNX family that I know of for that matter) also doubled as a decocker, like this was some space magic jesus himself had just invented and put into a gun before, who has EVER heard of a safety AND decocker on a gun? black magic!

 

Because FUCKING GOD FORBID a shooter actually familiarizes himself with the mechanical function and manual of arms of the firearm he is shooting.

 

Seriously.

 

These fuckers are probably the same sort who can't figure out how that you have to cock the hammer of a Ruger Vaquero or a .22 caliber Colt New Frontier and who'll blow their thumbnail off holding their offhand near the cylinder gap of a Model 29 .44 Magnum.

[Khand-e]

Because FUCKING GOD FORBID a shooter actually familiarizes himself with the mechanical function and manual of arms of the firearm he is shooting.

 

Seriously.

 

These fuckers are probably the same sort who can't figure out how that you have to cock the hammer of a Ruger Vaquero or a .22 caliber Colt New Frontier and who'll blow their thumbnail off holding their offhand near the cylinder gap of a Model 29 .44 Magnum.

 

The weird thing is, even on pistols with safeties, which I don't really mind if they're even there or not, I actually prefer slide safeties, mainly due to the fact that my slender man sized thumb and fingers can really easily disengage or engage them even on the largest designs without any problem. It's less of an annoyance to me.

[Donward]

The weird thing is, even on pistols with safeties, which I don't really mind if they're even there or not, I actually prefer slide safeties, mainly due to the fact that my slender man sized thumb and fingers can really easily disengage or engage them even on the largest designs without any problem. It's less of an annoyance to me.

I'm with you. I mean the fucking slide safety is RIGHT THERE by your thumb. It's like the Eye-Ties running Beretta placed it there on purpose. I much prefer it to the Chinese fire drill that is a 1911. But I have big hands and I'm not a lesbian Major in Civil Affairs trying to qualify on the M9 and who needs to use both hands to disengage it.

 

And yeah, I guess there are concerns about the theoretical strength of the slide with the safety on. But that's stretching things. 

[Sturgeon]

Oh pish posh. It's not "sensitive". It's of little concern whatsoever.

It's just that when you consider a weapon's weight, caliber, bullet grain and powder load, action, grip size, grip shape, barrel length, whether the barrel is ported, trigger type, trigger angle and whether someone has large, strong hands, weak wrists, or little piggy fingers, and the physical condition of the shooter, bore axis comes way down on the bottom of that list. I've fired a couple Colt 1911s including my step-grandfather's WW2 bring-home. I've fired fired my step-dad's West Germany .45 Sig. Pretty much equal in terms of "muzzle flip" all things considered.

Sure, if I was a competive shooter, I'd care more. But as an "average Joe", bore axis of little concern. But maybe I say that because I'm 6'2" and 215 pounds of gristle and have a vice grip for hands.

...Did you intend to imply that you've only ever shot three semi auto handguns, two of which are 1911s?

You know what I always say, normal people think of Glocks when you say "automatic pistol".

Revolver people think of 1911s.

[Khand-e]

On the topic of revolvers and TFB announcements, I seriously cannot wrap my mind around the fact that, of all the things Colt could do, they decided to reintroduce the Cobra.

 

Just what we need, another snub nosed 6 shooter chambered in .38 Dogshit! And they wonder why they went Bankrupt.

 

What next? "After exciting news, Walther announces It's reintroducing it's Model 9 .25 ACP pistol, now capable of firing rounds using a device to gain extra muzzle energy mounted above the sights known as a *slingshot*!"

[Donward]

...Did you intend to imply that you've only ever shot three semi auto handguns, two of which are 1911s?

You know what I always say, normal people think of Glocks when you say "automatic pistol".

Revolver people think of 1911s.

What are you talking about?

 

I was comparing two similar weapons in the same exact caliber, one a Sig and the other the traditional .45 Colt 1911. 

 

Holy heck man. Stop trying to pick a fight over everything. 

 

And yes, I've fired multiple semi-automatic handguns and own a pair myself.