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LostCosmonaut

I Learned Something Today

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Average high/low temp in January for Columbus Ohio is 2.3/-6.5 in C. 

 

Italy is 11/3, in C. So italy is warmer, true. You are correct. But enough to warrant retrofitting?

 

You assume houses have tile floors here. Thats not correct for many places. 

 

And th cost of a retrofit would pay for heating a house for years.

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6 minutes ago, Xoon said:

couldclimate.jpg

 

I was thinking in relation to this, the gulf stream is what keeps Norway from being a cold wasteland. Considering that Ohio is center north in the US, it should be a bit colder than, for example, Italy. 

But I see your point.

 

Remove the flooring tiles, cut into shape the heating mats, add a power cord and heat sensor, and hook it up to a thermostat. Then re add the flooring. 

Not very expensive at all. 

 

Besides, who uses water borne floor heating outside of eco houses? 

 

Yeah. That is rather expensive. 

 

The estimates I see are that it costs $10 to $20 a square foot to install the system (and up). And I don't believe that takes into account the cost for the flooring on top of that which you then have to replace (assuming you're remodeling). There are also concerns over the costs of repairing an in-floor system.

 

On top of that, modern heating systems in the US combine not only heat but air conditioning in their HVAC units. So the same heat ducts pushing heat in the winter will push cool AC in the summer. So having a heated floor, you're paying more for a redundant system. If you're going to have a redundant heating system, most Americans would prefer a pellet/wood stove.

 

There's also a concern over the cost of electricity in some regions of the US versus natural gas which can be a lot cheaper.

 

Which is why in the US if you see subfloor heating systems, they are normally relegated specifically to the bathroom, especially if folks prefer tile floors in their baths.

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18 hours ago, Xoon said:
19 hours ago, Donward said:

 

Remove the flooring tiles, cut into shape the heating mats, add a power cord and heat sensor, and hook it up to a thermostat. Then re add the flooring. 

Not very expensive at all. 

 

Besides, who uses water borne floor heating outside of eco houses? 

 

Is electric heating for the whole house typical in norway? Gas in the UK is several times cheaper than electricity (like 5p/kWhr compared to 15 p/kWhr, which makes sense given how a significant fraction of the power in electricity starts as gas going into a combined cycle plant), so a gas boiler pushing hot water around the house is the normal way of heating houses here

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53 minutes ago, Xlucine said:

 

Is electric heating for the whole house typical in norway? Gas in the UK is several times cheaper than electricity (like 5p/kWhr compared to 15 p/kWhr, which makes sense given how a significant fraction of the power in electricity starts as gas going into a combined cycle plant), so a gas boiler pushing hot water around the house is the normal way of heating houses here

Most houses I've ever seen or lived in had furnaces that heated air via natural gas and then sent that through the ducts.

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19 hours ago, Xoon said:

couldclimate.jpg

 

I was thinking in relation to this, the gulf stream is what keeps Norway from being a cold wasteland. Considering that Ohio is center north in the US, it should be a bit colder than, for example, Italy. 

But I see your point.

 

Remove the flooring tiles, cut into shape the heating mats, add a power cord and heat sensor, and hook it up to a thermostat. Then re add the flooring. 

Not very expensive at all. 

 

Besides, who uses water borne floor heating outside of eco houses? 

 

We use water borne floor heating. I believe my parents are going to install it again when they build their next house. I also helped a friend install it in his wood working shop years ago. We laid out a metal grid, attached the tubing to it in various subdivided sectors, and then the concrete slab was poured on top.

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22 hours ago, Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect said:

Average high/low temp in January for Columbus Ohio is 2.3/-6.5 in C. 

 

Italy is 11/3, in C. So italy is warmer, true. You are correct. But enough to warrant retrofitting?

 

You assume houses have tile floors here. Thats not correct for many places. 

 

And th cost of a retrofit would pay for heating a house for years.

I don't know a lot about the US climate, so I just guessed, thanks for correcting me. 

And yes, I assumed they did, it is the norm her in Norway for washrooms and bathrooms to have tiles, sometimes the hall too. 

But if you speak about what is the most cost efficient, electric floor heating is not worth is at all. 

It's a "luxury" thing, people want it so that they can have fancy floors that tend to be very cold, and still have a warm feeling from beneath their feet. 

A rug is way more cost efficient. The only real upside is the very well distributed heating. 

 

22 hours ago, Donward said:

Yeah. That is rather expensive. 

The estimates I see are that it costs $10 to $20 a square foot to install the system (and up). And I don't believe that takes into account the cost for the flooring on top of that which you then have to replace (assuming you're remodeling). There are also concerns over the costs of repairing an in-floor system.

71004-1.jpg

I am not sure about the US, but most people know a carpenter or construction worker, or knows how to do flooring in Norway. We do all the prep work for the electrician, then he does the wiring and fuses, and we add the floor again. Sometimes we let the craftsmen do it do have it be extra nice. So it tends to be pretty reasonably priced. 

 

Not sure what would break in electric floor heating. It is all solid state, it would outlast your fuses, even the thermostat. 

 

 

22 hours ago, Donward said:

On top of that, modern heating systems in the US combine not only heat but air conditioning in their HVAC units. So the same heat ducts pushing heat in the winter will push cool AC in the summer. So having a heated floor, you're paying more for a redundant system. If you're going to have a redundant heating system, most Americans would prefer a pellet/wood stove.

Most houses in Norway lack ducting outside of simple air ducts that lets fresh air in, and the blower to getting the cooking fumes and steam out.  Most people do have a HVAC and wood stove though. 

The stove is mostly for the cosy feel, but it is also a back up in case of a power outage, in which it gets very cold in the winter. 

 

 

22 hours ago, Donward said:

There's also a concern over the cost of electricity in some regions of the US versus natural gas which can be a lot cheaper.

Electricity is "dirt cheap" here, so that is a big factor. Gas is not reasonably priced. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Xlucine said:

Is electric heating for the whole house typical in norway? Gas in the UK is several times cheaper than electricity (like 5p/kWhr compared to 15 p/kWhr, which makes sense given how a significant fraction of the power in electricity starts as gas going into a combined cycle plant), so a gas boiler pushing hot water around the house is the normal way of heating houses here

Almost all houses in Norway lack water borne heating. Some do in special cases, like when a furniture factory is nearby and sells he excess heat.  Only modern houses have balanced heating with ducts, which means most heating comes from HVAC, heaters, wood stoves and floor heating. New houses tend to have floor heating in every room. Old houses only in the bathrooms and halls, places with tiles. 

 

So yes, we use almost purely electrical heating, either through HVAC or heating elements. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect said:

Most houses I've ever seen or lived in had furnaces that heated air via natural gas and then sent that through the ducts.

Never heard of in Norway. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Ulric said:

We use water borne floor heating. I believe my parents are going to install it again when they build their next house. I also helped a friend install it in his wood working shop years ago. We laid out a metal grid, attached the tubing to it in various subdivided sectors, and then the concrete slab was poured on top.

Water borne heating is awesome, if you can pay for it. Much more efficient and allows a lot of power saving.  Thermal solar panels, wood/gas heating, electric heating, heat pump heating. 

 

Though it is simply not worth it to retrofit in most Norwegian houses, and most opt for electrical heating instead in modern houses to save cost. 

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