SH_MM

Just some minor wheeled update:

• Negotiations on the purchase of the Schwerer Waffenträger Infanterie based (based on Boxer CRV) with Australia have started. An Australian delegation has visited Germany. The goal is to sign a government-to-government deal in 2023 and receive first vehicles by 2025. Overall 121 vehicles are to be purchased. A recent article written by authorized representative for the program in the German MoD detailed that the selection of the manned turret was a result of the vehicle commander somehow needing "direct visual contact and direct communication" to nearby infantry (apparently that is not possible when the commander has a hatch in the hull ). 

• As the Boxer CRV is a reconnaissance variant based on an IFV variant, it is designed with capacity for infantry (dismounting scouts), but the German Jäger will not have dismounts on the Schwerer Waffenträger Infanterie... so they are trying to come up with some sort of use for the rear compartment such as carrying UAVs (which can be and are already carried in lighter vehicles at greater distance from the front line) or "UGVs armed for example with an autocannon" (currently market available UGVs with autocannon - unless talking about an anemic solution with the M230LF - are too heavy and too large to be carried inside the Boxer and have enough endurance - e.g. Milrem Type X UGV: 600 km - to be drive on their own).

• Also German media reported (based on "industry sources") that an alternative offer - likely from KMW - with full production in Germany supposedly was only half as expensive.
• The Caracal (a variant of the Enok 4.8 AB from ACS Armoured Car Systems offered in cooperation with Rheinmetall and Mercedes-Benz) has been selected as the new lightly armored vehicle airborne for the airborne units of the Dutch and German armies. At the moment 1,504 vehicles (1,000 for Germany and 504 for the Netherlands) have been ordered, but there is an option for a further 1,500 (1,000 for Germany and 500 for the Netherlands). Deliveries are to start 2025 at a rate of 300 vehicles (with 200 going to Germany and 100 to the Netherlands each year). The Netherlands have also purchased 138 armor kits for the Caracal; there are currently no infos on how many Germany has purchased/will purchase. The Caracal beat the GRF from KMW & Defenture. Originally GDELS also competed with the Merlin, but withdrew due to it being to heavy for the weight limit.

• As per the German concept for the Medium Forces (Mittlere Kräfte), at least some Marder IFVs are to be replaced with a Boxer IFV model. The latest plans suggest that a total of 148 Boxer IFVs should be procured. Supposedly the Army favors an unmanned solution, so there won't be any turret commonality with the Schwerer Waffenträger Infanterie.
• Germany also remains comitted to the procurement of a wheeled SPG; the stated requirement is for 160 vehicles. Currently the maturity of the Boxer-based RCH 155 is being tested with (based on rumor mill) rather positive feedback, but also some minor improvement ideas that are being implemented by KMW. The "wheeled self-propelled howitzer" from a cooperation of Rheinmetall (providing the HX3 truck chassis, weapon system and local modifications) and Elbit Systems (providing the turret and autoloader of its SIGMA system) is not being tested yet due to the immaturity of the design (still in development, no real prototype has fired its gun) and for being incompatible with a partner's (UK) requirement.
• further Boxer variants are also planned including ARV, AVLB, long-range anti-tank vehicle, air-defence missile carrier and SPAAG with the Skyranger 30 turret are also planned, but not much concrete details regarding numbers and equipment. KMW has proposed the Boxer UAV variants (carrying & controlling more than a dozen small/micro drones) and Boxer Digitalization (for controlling UGVs) for the German medium forces

• The program for the Fuchs successor is also on-going. Currently the German Army plans to purchase 629 new vehicles. Germany has joined the Patria CAVS program, but this is not a final decision as it is a prerequisite for testing the Patria 6x6 vehicle. Patria has stated in an interview with German media that it is looking for local partners that would take care of the production for the Bundeswehr's program, if the CAVS is selected. Rheinmetall is offering its Fuchs Evolution, which is not really a Fuchs 2, but also more than the previously proposed Fuchs 1A9.
• Meanwhile Rheinmetall and Ukraine have agreed on the supply (and later local production) of Fuchs vehicles including a new upgraded IFV variant. There are/were two options being discussed: using the Skyranger 30 turret (which is an air-defence turret and thus not optimal for a modern IFV) or leftover Marder 1A3 turrets (which are quite outdated). Production of Fuchs vehicles in high quantities in Ukraine might be advantageous for the companies' chances against the CAVS.

• Last but not least, Rheinmetall and Lockheed Martin have detailed their offer (based on HIMARS) in the German wheeled artillery program. The new system is called GMARS (German Medium/Multiple Artillery Rocket System) based on a HX3 truck and fitted with a full-sized launcher from the latest/improved M270A2 variant; so it is rather comparable K239 Chunmoo and HOMAR-K (Polish Chunmoo on Jelz truck) but based on official ToT/cooperation and not a bootleg copy. The two companies want Diehl to join their offer, competing against a team formed by KMW, MBDA, EGS and Elbit Systems offering the Euro-PULS system. Euro-PULS is likely cheaper and due to the removable pods, missile size is not limited to the MRLS-launche's internal dimensions, but it carries less ready-to-fire missiles (at least when using GMRLS-sized rockets). Germany favors having a Leopard 2-like "user-club" for its new vehicles (to share development costs, place common orders and help each other with training/logistics), which IMO favors Euro-PULS, as the normal PULS artillery system has been purchased by traditional partners of Germany (the Netherlands and Denmark). GMARS OTOH is based on some HIMARS components and HIMARS has seen a wider adoption in Europe (Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Romania and Poland all have signed contracts for HIMARS).

New Leguans for Denmark being tested.

I must say, I never paid attention to the new driver hatch design for the Leguan - a swivel hatch like on pre-2A5 tanks, but quite a bit beefed up. Commander seems to have only a simple flip up hatch.

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16 hours ago, Wiedzmin said:

 

 

some strange testbed with cuted roof

 

 

addons look like RI

 

This is the tank (or at least the hull), shown at Eurosatory 2014. AFAIK it was a proposed variant for either an upgrade offer made to Chile or a sales offer made to Peru.

The turret seems to be taken from a different tank, might have been a testbed used for the ADS. Not only the roof was removed, but also the optics (EMES 15 and PERI R17) and there are marks near the turret bustle from an impact.

Lance turret shell in Australia

On 5/24/2023 at 6:47 AM, Pardus said:

The upper glacis is most likely a 45mm plate @ 82 deg, which is equivalent to ~350mm of RHA. An additional atleast 45mm of plating has then been added on top of that for the 2A7V bumping protection there up to above 700mm RHAe

The add-on armor is not homogenous steel.

On 5/24/2023 at 6:47 AM, Pardus said:

That said this protection value is taken from a Swedish leak regarding Strv122 protection levels whilst using 90's D-tech external addon armour. It's rather likely that the 2A7V uses newer (E, F, G-Tech etc) external armour packages which provide even better protection.

There are no "F-Technology" and "G-Technology" armor systems. The add-on armor for the Leopard 2 PSO, 2A4M CAN and Leopard 2A7 models is the "E-Technology".

However the name does not refer to a specific armor solution, i.e. there are multiple types of armor systems based on "D-Technology" with different protection levels - with newer ones being developed and fielded after the original one. E.g. the Leopardo 2E is better protected than the Stridsvagn 122, despite both of them using armor in "D-Technology".

8 hours ago, 2805662 said:

Reportedly, input costs in Germany have risen significantly due to the denuclearisation of the power grid. This, plus capacity issues thanks to post-February 2022 orders, may make KF41 cheaper to build in Australia than Germany. 

The "denuclearisation" of electrical power didn't have an impact on prices for industrial application, but the reduction of gas imports from Russia. However "overseas production" isn't limiting Rheinmetall to Germany. They have a brand now plant in Zalaegerszeg, Hungary specifically made for producing Lynx IFVs. The lower cost of labor and the lack of follow-up contracts for that site certainly favors proposing a Hungary-based production.

Rheinmetall already wanted to use this plant when bidding in the Slovak IFV program.

1 hour ago, mr.T said:

Looks like Europe will end up on M1 as most of Euro tanks will end up being scraped in Ukraine . No one is going to be buying Leclerc or Leopard after Ukraine and honestly manufacturing in Europe is getting killed by green new deal being showed down every ones throats.

KMW is getting more orders for Leopard 2 tanks (and negotiating with further potential customers) than before the Russian attempt to invade Ukraine. So it is quite the opposite.

53 minutes ago, 2805662 said:

That article is a bit contradictory. Lynx’s vibrations due to “all metal track”, which points toward rubber band track (Soucy was demonstrated on Lynx, briefly), however Redback had “problems” with its rubber band track (first I’ve heard of this).

I wouldn't call that contradictory; the track issues could be of different nature. Unlike presented in Soucy's marketing material, both types of tracks have their advantages and shortcomings. Wiesel 1 originally had rubber band tracks, but due to performance issues these were later replaced with Diehl steel tracks. Now the LuWam prototype is fitted with (lengthened) Wiesel 1 tracks, but it is planned to replace those with rubber band tracks...

For the Australian bid, Rheinmetall fitted the KF41 Lynx with TR40 tracks from the British company Cook Defence Systems... the same tracks as fitted to Ajax. Maybe using other steel tracks might have avoided the vibrations/internal noise from reaching unbearable levels? Vibrations at least are something that is being considered during steel track development.

On 3/2/2023 at 8:55 PM, 2805662 said:

Today’s The Australian newspaper:

 

Interestingly, their later article claims something else :

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/defence/germany-in-drivers-seat-to-clinch-18bn-armoured-vehicle-deal/news-story/8b25bc70abb164b76e5d7337a2b2dec3?amp

Quote

Multiple sources said the South Korean vehicle outperformed its German rival, but those close to the Rheinmetall bid said the Lynx came out on top. The Australian understands soldiers in the Rheinmetall vehicle complained of excessive vibration in the cabin and an occupational health and safety waiver had to be issued when some of the testers became sick.

 

The problem was linked to the German vehicle’s all-metal tracks. The Lynx was also said to have suffered more mechanical problems requiring engine changes.

 

The Redback reportedly had issues with cabin toxicity when the main gun was fired, which also required an OHS waiver, and problems with the vehicle’s composite rubber and steel tracks.

 

Both vehicles had developmental issues with their turrets and integration of active protection systems, which have become vital given the proliferation of anti-armour weapons.

Leopard C1 turret used as target on a Canadian range.

Burlak is the name of the turret.

Panzer 58 and Panzer 61, trilingual news videos.

Old Swiss report on the trials of Leopard 2 and M1 Abrams.

Germany wants to order 18 Leopard 2A8 tanks with the options for more ("a middle three-digit number").

2A7V hulls.

~$17 million USD to convert a M1A1 SA to a M1A2 SEP v3!

This is a misreporting, the source of this article mentions that Poland and South Korea are looking to cooperate on Borsuk production/further development (likely "heavy Borsuk" based on K9/Redback hull).

Boxer with the same LANCE 2.0* turret as fitted to the Hungarian KF41 Lynx variant. Boxer CRV block II?

That won't be relevant at most impact angles.

19 hours ago, Serge said:

The purpose of a test is to make a choice not to look at what to fix. 

Yes, that's fair. Still not entirely sure about the concept behind LAND 400 though (Phase 2: eliminate all unproven systems, then modify Boxer after selection and making it less proven; Phase 3: eliminate all proven systems, then complain about teething issues...).

If there are no issues with one vehicle and performance is on par or better, it always should be selected.

14 hours ago, Żółć said:

In Poland, Redback's tests went poorly

This is what I was referring to. Redback performed very well in Australia (according to Australian reports), yet poor in Poland (according to Polish sources).

Australian soldiers complaint about Lynx's "excessive noise" in the vehicle, yet in the Slovak trials only the ASCOD 42 was demoted for vibration and noise issues.