The Small Arms Thread, Part 8: 2018; ICSR to be replaced by US Army with interim 15mm Revolver Cannon.

[Hisname]

40 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

Question was about gun itself, but it was answered elsewhere. 

6х49 ....6х45...6х39mm AK rifle?!!!!

[Xlucine]

On 4/28/2018 at 4:49 PM, Sturgeon said:

Oh I guess I can post these then, too:

 

Backstage show from SHOT?

[Sturgeon]

2 minutes ago, Xlucine said:

 

Backstage show from SHOT?

Nope

[Collimatrix]

3 hours ago, Xlucine said:

 

Backstage show from SHOT?

 

Pictures are nothing!  Beverage carbonation attachments!

[LoooSeR]

13 hours ago, Xlucine said:

 

Backstage show from SHOT?

SHOT in Russia?

[LoooSeR]

Haftar and his guards with F2000

[LoooSeR]

Umm...

Spoiler

 

[LoooSeR]

Quote

This handgun was snapped when a no.of press agencies were given exclusive access to prestigious National University of Science and Technology(MISiS) - often colaborates w/ Foundation for Advanced Research(FPI).Note TsNIITochMash & 9x21 markings. Poss.related to Ratnik-3 research

[LoooSeR]

On 4/28/2018 at 8:30 PM, LoooSeR said:

What is this thing?

hehe, here it is, at the bottom

[Ramlaen]

Am I being overly cynical if I suspect the HK416/M27 overgassed issue was intentional on HK’s part so as to sell adjustable gas blocks?

[Collimatrix]

4 hours ago, Ramlaen said:

Am I being overly cynical if I suspect the HK416/M27 overgassed issue was intentional on HK’s part so as to sell adjustable gas blocks?

 

Overgassing a weapon can work as a quick band-aid sort of fix to get it to be more reliable, at least under certain circumstances.  The bolt carrier group has more kinetic energy to power through dirt and grime, extract sticky cases, et cetera.  It's also a solution that HK has a lot of experience with.  The bolt carriers on HK roller guns move insanely quickly.  Sturgeon and I did some high-speed video of an HK 21 years ago, and we estimated from it that HK roller guns have about four times the kinetic energy in their bolt carrier stroke as AR-15s do.  Also, if you watch videos of the later spiral XM8s firing full auto, it's clear that they cycle faster than G-36s.  The gas port may have been opened up, although according to the most recent Larry Vickers/Forgotten Weapons video on the XM8, it may also be that the XM8's bolt carrier is lighter.

 

Deliberately overgassing an AR-15 action does not work very well, however.  Or at least, you can only get away with it smaller doses than other weapons.  The problem is that the AR-15 has very little bolt carrier overtravel.  Compared to, say, an AK-74, the AR-15's bolt face retreats very little past the case heads of the rounds presented by the magazine.  If the kinetic energy of the bolt carrier greatly exceeds the work capacity of the return spring, then the bolt carrier will still be moving vigorously backwards once it reaches the end of its travel.  Instead of slowing down, momentarily stopping and then feeding the way a well-balanced AR-15 does, the bolt carrier violently ricochets off the receiver.  This elastic ricochet gives the AR-15 bolt carrier quite a bit more initial velocity than it would have if it were being propelled by the return spring alone and allows it, at least some of the time, to get the bolt over the top of the magazine fast enough that it does not pick up a round.

[Laser Shark]

I guess they'll want adjustable gas blocks on the additional 15 000 M27s they’re buying, and if they’re doing that they might as well ask HK to modify the current ones as well...?

 

The "new" M38 (originally posted on the HkPro forum):

 

 

[LoooSeR]

https://vk.com/kalashism?w=wall-160278262_830

 

Kalashism on rare GR3:

Quote

   So, the parade of "Gekh" starts with the most bombing thing that I found during the month of travel - a mega-modification HK33 under the GR3 index.

   Disclaimer - to eviscerate the most interesting weapon of one very good person, I had very little time, and from the abundance of samples my eyes flared, so there will be no highly detailed, high-quality photos of all markings and giblets.

 

   Let's start with history.
   The only official mention of the GR series (German rifle) is in Manfred Kersten and Walter Schmid's book "Heckler & Koch", issued on the 50th anniversary of the company (in theory it should be '99 year, but everywhere they say '01th). Scans from the book and some description of the series can be found on the site of HKpro, although the moment with the markings makes me somewhat confused, we will return to this.

 

   What do we have in practice?
   This HK33 with integrated optics 1,5X, the lack of mechanical sighting devices and factory painting in the forest camouflage (also there were known versions of painting in desert camo, and in plans was snow camo). Accordingly, in our model the index will be GR3 C A2 ("colored - colored", since so the Germans called the "forest" version + the presence of a permanent polymer stock). But why does a friend from HKpro add the letter "E" to the index - it's not clear and goes against the info from the book.

 

   In the process of my "excavations" I found 6 rifles in perfect condition, except that on one with integrated sight that had a serious longitudinal play without a hint of the possibility of eliminating it by twisting/screwing something.

 

   The sight itself is rather primitive, the "glade" is small (but more and more than StG.77), the exit "pupil" is small. The reticle is a simple thin cross about 2/3 of the diameter. Lateral corrections are introduced using a hexagon, and vertically - the drum under the front of the sight pipe with four positions - by 100, 200, 300 and 400 m, respectively. The positions are not fixed, i.e. you can also adjust the intermediate distances. The mechanism could not be fully tested, but at the "1" position all of the shots arrived in the target. There was no time to to groups.

 

 

Spoiler

 

Quote

   The history of these rifles is quite interesting. In the 80s, they were ordered by the Pakistani army for testing in their army special forces - SSG. The marking of the POF plant was made in Germany. Pakistanis did not like rifle for some reason and how many of them they arrived there is not known, but the most senior number I saw in the collection was "200", and there were also "199" and "001".

   When I tried to shoot, the bolt did not close twice with a manual cocking, I think it can be attributed to the fact that the last time the rifles were serviced a very long time. Plus, I discovered that on G3 / MP5 it is more reliable to send the cartridge by dropping the handle from the groove, rather than by the usual withdrawal / release of the charging handle. Other sample during shooting fire mode selector switched to the burst fire on its own.

 

   How many "colored" rifles and machine guns were manufactured is not known. It can be assumed that the project in HK did not "take off" from the word "completely" and further testing in different divisions did not come. Apparently, potential users were repelled by the lack of even a backup sights, and optics and camouflage did not have the desired marketing effect.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[LoooSeR]

"Quality"

[LoooSeR]

Azerbaijan border guards small arms

 

Spoiler

 

[LoooSeR]

https://vk.com/kalashism?w=wall-160278262_850

 

Quote

 

G41 - another rifle from H & K that did not "took off".

 

   It's all simple - the Germans wanted a bit STANAG'a and partially AR ergonomics. Changed the form of the magazine well, however, the mag drop button is only on the left side and works in the manner of the tuned AR - "pulls" the latch from the groove of the mag.

   To the top of the receiver they welded bolt assist/forward, they did not forget to cut grooves on the frame for it. Everything is welded well, but without any frills.

 

   Then I realized how much this detail is needed at all G3 / MP5, when reflexively hammered on the cocking handle forward, unsuccessfully trying to lock the bolt to the end. I am not even talking about of any high-speed mag changes on this system: if the cocking handle was pulled not to the end, or you assist with your hand its movement forward - there is a very high probability that the lock will not happen. The only way to eliminate such a delay without a forward assist is to pull the handle again. But who said that under stress all this can not be repeated or in an uncomfortable position?

 

   Well, one more important point, hitherto unknown to me. In the construction of the bolt group there is a part preventing the bolt from bouncing off when locking to the barrel. It is made in the form of a spring-loaded tooth on the bolt frame, which grabs the bolt for a rather flat ledge at the rear when it comes to the extreme forward position (a picture).

 

   So, manual unlocking of the system occurs in two stages:
1) While opening the collapsible handle of the cocking, we do not just ease ourselves by increasing the lever, but release the bolt from capturing this tooth. Because the movement is quite tight and"torn" + tube in which the handle moves seriously heats up when firing.
2) The backward movement is the unlocking of the system, the rollers go into the body of the bolt group, when the wedge frees the place for them.
In short, with the elimination of delays/failures, you can hapnut decent amount of grief .

 

   Let's continue.
   Also they welded ejection port cover and a carrying handle for some reason. Did they miss the FN FAL? Above the magasine release button they made the bolt relase button. Rifle locks open on last round automatically, but the groove for the cocking handle was not removed.

 

   At the forehand, the notches for the optional two-legged bipod disappeared, and the shape has become somewhat different. Slightly changed the attachment of the buttstock to the body, on lower part there was one pin, incidentally holding the trigger group, and from above a new one was added.

 

   Two pieces were in collection, with a permanent and telescopic stock. The markings of the model are the same, without any A2 / A3, etc.

 

   Estimating all the changes made to the production process technology, reconfiguring the machines, replacing some equipment and manuall welding of a lot of parts, one can readily believe that the price compared to the HK33 has increased decently, and the cheaper and technologically advanced HK50 / G36 was just around the corner.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

[LoooSeR]

OTs-122 in .45 ACP

[LoooSeR]

From Yuri Pasholok's LJ.

 

[Meplat]

On 4/30/2018 at 2:30 PM, Collimatrix said:

 

 

 

Deliberately overgassing an AR-15 action does not work very well, however.  Or at least, you can only get away with it smaller doses than other weapons.  The problem is that the AR-15 has very little bolt carrier overtravel.  Compared to, say, an AK-74, the AR-15's bolt face retreats very little past the case heads of the rounds presented by the magazine.  If the kinetic energy of the bolt carrier greatly exceeds the work capacity of the return spring, then the bolt carrier will still be moving vigorously backwards once it reaches the end of its travel.  Instead of slowing down, momentarily stopping and then feeding the way a well-balanced AR-15 does, the bolt carrier violently ricochets off the receiver.  This elastic ricochet gives the AR-15 bolt carrier quite a bit more initial velocity than it would have if it were being propelled by the return spring alone and allows it, at least some of the time, to get the bolt over the top of the magazine fast enough that it does not pick up a round.

You can mitigate (somewhat) the overgassed condition in the AR-15 by opening or relocating the gas bleed ports on the bolt carrier.

Though the real "fix" is just doing it right the first time.

 

I've sometimes wondered why some enterprising soul( in the neverending quest to separate AR owners from their money), has not come up with an "adjustable bolt carrier" with an adjustable gas port, to go along with the "adjustable gas blocks" and "adjustable gas tubes" on the market.

[Ramlaen]

23 minutes ago, Meplat said:

I've sometimes wondered why some enterprising soul( in the neverending quest to separate AR owners from their money), has not come up with an "adjustable bolt carrier" with an adjustable gas port, to go along with the "adjustable gas blocks" and "adjustable gas tubes" on the market.

 

Like this?

[Collimatrix]

23 minutes ago, Meplat said:

You can mitigate (somewhat) the overgassed condition in the AR-15 by opening or relocating the gas bleed ports on the bolt carrier.

Though the real "fix" is just doing it right the first time.

 

I've sometimes wondered why some enterprising soul( in the neverending quest to separate AR owners from their money), has not come up with an "adjustable bolt carrier" with an adjustable gas port, to go along with the "adjustable gas blocks" and "adjustable gas tubes" on the market.

 

Yes indeed.  LMT did this with their enhanced bolt carrier:

 

More vents and further forward can help cycling issues in an overgassed barrel.

 

There is a company out there called Bootleg making an adjustable bolt carrier as well.

[Hisname]

8 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

OTs-122 in .45 ACP 

[Meplat]

7 hours ago, Ramlaen said:

 

Like this?

 

7 hours ago, Collimatrix said:

 

Yes indeed.  LMT did this with their enhanced bolt carrier:

 

More vents and further forward can help cycling issues in an overgassed barrel.

 

There is a company out there called Bootleg making an adjustable bolt carrier as well.

THE PROPHECY HAS BEEN FULFILLED. SOON THE GATE WILL OPEN.

 

(HAHAHAHA! Four hundred bucks FFS. AR's are turning into the Honda Civic of firearms. ).

[roguetechie]

16 hours ago, Meplat said:

 

THE PROPHECY HAS BEEN FULFILLED. SOON THE GATE WILL OPEN.

 

(HAHAHAHA! Four hundred bucks FFS. AR's are turning into the Honda Civic of firearms. ).

 

Turning into?

 

They already sell loudeners too (the fart can exhaust system of the gun world)

 

And the ax head stock counts as a shitty summit down force wing by any sane measure of stupid.

 

It's ok though, even if people make fun of both the civic and the AR15, at the end of the day people will still buy and use them because they just plain work.

[Meplat]

54 minutes ago, roguetechie said:

 

Turning into?

 

They already sell loudeners too (the fart can exhaust system of the gun world)

 

And the ax head stock counts as a shitty summit down force wing by any sane measure of stupid.

 

It's ok though, even if people make fun of both the civic and the AR15, at the end of the day people will still buy and use them because they just plain work.

I own some myself, but no way in hell am I going to do the equivalent of "Shaking a Jegs catalog" over them in a misguided attempt to buy skill /accuracy.

It's like the guy I dealt with who spent a couple grand on his AR build, then fucked the works by dropping a "lightweight tactical"  carbine buffer in it. (it had battered to where it was binding in the tube and causing feed issues)

 

I never did find out why he had pickatinny cheesegraters on the telestock, either.