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United States Military Vehicle General: Guns, G*vins, and Gas Turbines

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AAV-P7A1 CATFAE (Catapult launched Fuel Air Explosives).  Troop carrying capabilities were exchanged for 21 fuel-air ordnance launchers for the purpose of clearing minefields and other obstacles durin

About two and a half years ago i've stumbled across some russian book about western IFVs, which apparently was a mere compilation of articles from western magazines translated into russian. There was

Recoil system of the M256:  

I guess also my confusion is that we are not experiencing a colonel shortage near as i can tell, so I'm thinking why give one colonel all that stuff.


Share the love, spread the wealth!


Either that or basically this means that all the upgrade talk is rearranging deck chairs and nothing's gonna get actually accomplished any time soon.

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4 hours ago, roguetechie said:

Strykers lasers aps... That's what i heard.


Personally i consider APS important and the other two varying degrees of meh, but my understanding is that the ARMY has a different feeling on all this and considers all three pretty important.


IIRC Adam Aberle is the guy running the laser show for the US Army.

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The DVH A1 made me want to revisit an old post of mine about Stryker weight and suspension.


-Flat bottom hull (FBH) Strykers have the "3.5" suspension, but can be upgraded to "5.5"

-Double V hull (DVH)  Strykers have the "5.5" suspension and are upgraded to "6.0" suspension in the A1 model

-"3.5" suspension has a 42,000 pound rating

-"5.5" suspension has a 55,000 pound rating

-"6.0" suspension has a 60,000 or 63,000 pound rating depending on the source

-According to the General Dynamics spokesman in the video below the heaviest Stryker variant is 53,000 pounds







I haven't been able to find out if FBH Strykers are being upgraded to "5.5" suspension as a standard or if it is just Dragoons receiving it. I suspect the M1128 has since it's weight issues seem to have been resolved.

Edited by Ramlaen
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7 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Ramlaen, I always liked you. You were known to me as an exceptionally tidy man of well sourced and sound information.

Don't defile and corrupt us and this thread with your imperialistic units of measurement.

For a second I got scared about what you were going to say.


But I agree. Why do Americans use the IMPERIAL unit system? I thought you didn't like the Brits.

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8 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Ramlaen, I always liked you. You were known to me as an exceptionally tidy man of well sourced and sound information.

Don't defile and corrupt us and this thread with your imperialistic units of measurement.


The smart ass answer is that I will stop using American units of measure in a thread about American vehicles when I see people from another country walking on the Moon.


The scholarly answer is that I am using the units that are used in the citations.

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Apparently the "robotic wingman" demonstration happened last month.




The second demonstration ― the Abrams Lethality Enabler ― was designed to show what can be done if the weapons loader in an Abrams tank is freed up to control ground robots. The concept incorporates an Abrams compact autoloader in order to allow the loader to focus on other tasks.


In the second scenario, the MRZR continues its reconnaissance, identifying enemy locations. An Abrams section is sitting in a concealed position while an 81mm automated direct/indirect mortar suppresses the enemy with firepower while another semiautonomous vehicle ― the M58 smoke generator called Wolf ― moves out into a position where it can conceal the Abrams section in order for it to move into a more advantageous location for firing on the enemy.

The Wolf system deploys heavy smoke and the Abrams section moves up a hill and behind a treeline to get into position. One of the tanks concealed by trees fires on the enemy, taking out the target.

Throughout the two demonstrations, the robotic systems were commanded using a common controller.



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General Dynamics Land Systems, a business unit of General Dynamics (NYSE: GD), recently received two contract awards from the U.S. Army for Abrams main battle tank upgrades, which will boost the platform’s capabilities and help the Army lead the way into the future.

The company will design, develop and integrate multiple engineering changes into the Abrams M1A2 System Enhancement Package Version 3 (SEPv3), creating a SEPv4 and further modernizing the tanks. Abrams main battle tanks are produced at the Joint Systems Manufacturing Center in Lima, Ohio.

The first contract is for SEPv4 upgrades, which include the Commander’s Primary Sight (formerly known as the Commander’s Independent Thermal Viewer), an improved Gunner’s Primary Sight and enhancements to sensors, lethality and survivability. General Dynamics Land Systems will deliver seven prototype M1A2 SEPv4 tanks to the Army. The contract has an initial value of $311 million. Work will be performed in Sterling Heights, Mich.; Lima; Scranton, Pa.; and Tallahassee, Fla.



It hasn't been explicitly stated yet but at this point it is clear that SEPv3 is ECP 1a and SEPv4 is ECP 1b.

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I hate paywalls.


The Army has postponed a decision to purchase the Trophy active protection system for the Abrams tank, Inside the Army has learned. During an Aug. 25 meeting of the Army Requirements Oversight Council, senior leaders concluded the effects of the system on the tank, particularly on the performance of the Abrams turret, require further testing. The purchase decision was expected to be made at the AROC meeting. "The results of the live-fire testing have been very positive," Lt. Gen...

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1 hour ago, Ramlaen said:

The Army has postponed a decision to purchase the Trophy active protection system for the Abrams tank, Inside the Army has learned.

During an Aug. 25 meeting of the Army Requirements Oversight Council, senior leaders concluded the effects of the system on the tank, particularly on the performance of the Abrams turret, require further testing. The purchase decision was expected to be made at the AROC meeting.

"The results of the live-fire testing have been very positive," Lt. Gen. Mike Murray, the service's deputy chief of staff (G-8), told ITA Sept. 6. "Everybody is convinced this is the capability that we want; we just have to overcome the impacts."

The Army has to "make sure we fully understand the problems" that come with installing a nondevelopmental APS on an existing vehicle platform, he said. While the Israeli Defense Forces' Merkava tank "was built with Trophy in mind to be integrated onto the platform," Murray said, the U.S. Army "just installed it" on the Abrams. "So we have some weight-balance issues we've got to work through, and may have to play with placement."

He emphasized that "nobody is walking away from Trophy." However, "we want to make sure we fully understand that the problems we have identified are fixable before we commit to a procurement decision."

Maj. Gen. David Bassett, PEO GCS, last month alluded to some of the challenges encountered in the "installation and characterization" effort. "Turret balance and the performance of the turret is really important to us," he said. "We've done some initial testing so that we understand what impact that had on the turret itself, and I think we're just in the early phase of figuring out what we might be able to do to mitigate it. It's as much about balance as it is weight."

Prior testing of Trophy, which involved a stationary tank, revealed "some impacts on the performance of the turret," Murray said. He declined to elaborate further.

Forthcoming tests "would involve some actual crews running some actual engagement scenarios -- moving tank, stationary tank, et cetera," he said. The testing will include participation from the Maneuver Center of Excellence, Army Test and Evaluation Command, the Program Executive Office for Ground Combat Systems and Army Forces Command.

The goal is to have the testing complete and results synthesized "within 30 days" of the AROC, Murray said.

Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Milley has prioritized the need to boost the survivability and lethality of maneuver forces in Europe in the wake of Russian adventurism on the continent. The service aims to devote more than $1 billionin European Deterrence Initiative funding, via the Defense Department’s Overseas Contingency Operations account, to upgrading combat vehicles in Europe.

At present, the plan is to procure a brigade set of Trophy APS using EDI funding, Murray said, "and then we'll have to go back to the chief and make a decision about how many more we go with."

Representatives from General Dynamics Land Systems, the maker of the Abrams, and DRS Technologies, which has partnered with Israel's Rafael to bring Trophy to the United States, have discussed their efforts in separate interviews with ITA.

Don Kotchman, vice president of tracked combat vehicles at GDLS, said Aug. 28 the company "worked in close partnership with [the Tank Automotive Research, Development and Engineering Center], and the program office to support the design for installation of the Trophy kit onto the tank. And then the development of the installation kitting . . . so the system could be attached."

Additionally, he said GDLS conducted a "parallel" effort using independent research and development funds to incorporate an "ability to use the data from the sensors associated with Trophy to give the vehicle commander improved situational awareness."

Michael O’Leary, director of survivability and lethality for DRS Land Systems, said Aug. 25 the NDI effort has "migrated in a lot of people's minds from a focus on the capabilities of the system to a refocus on the true challenges of how you integrate a capability like this on a platform that already exists.

"It's a totally different story if you're incorporating and integrating this on a clean-sheet design -- much easier process. But on a platform like an Abrams, where it's already had multiple technologies and add-on capabilities -- armor, sensors, equipment -- just trying to find the right places for the system's components, such that it can see all around the vehicle, such that the countermeasures can fire all around the vehicle and protect the entire platform, 360 degrees. Those are challenges."

Citing a "consensus of opinion" that APS improves the survivability of a platform, O'Leary said, "if you take away or you degrade the tactical capability of the platform in the process, then you don't get a whole lot of supporters."

Those challenges are "not insurmountable," and many have already been addressed, he maintained. The corollary, however, is to assess how "any changes you've made affect cost, schedule and performance."



EDIT: I master the art of "hax".

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  • 2 weeks later...



OCTOBER 2, 2017 01:43

The estimated cost per tank is $350,000.
2 minute read.

A US M1 Abrams tank fires during the "Saber Strike" NATO military exercise in Adazi, Latvia, June 11, 2016.. (photo credit:REUTERS)

The US Army has approved the installation of Israel’s Trophy active-protection system on a number of its M1A2 Abrams tanks, making it the first army aside from the IDF to use the system.

The Pentagon said Thursday the decision was made following “an urgent material” request.

Designed to detect and neutralize incoming projectiles, the Trophy system has four radar antennae and fire-control radars to track incoming threats such as anti-tank guided missiles and rocket-propelled grenades. Once a projectile is detected, Trophy fires a shotgun-type blast to neutralize the threat.

Developed by Israel’s Rafael Advanced Defense Systems and Israel Aircraft Industries’ Elta Group, it is the only fully operational and combat-proven APS in the world.

Michigan-based General Dynamics Land Systems was contracted to add the system to an Armor Brigade Combat Team’s M1A2 SEPv2 at a cost of close to $10 million with an expected completion date by the end of March 2019.

The estimated cost per tank is $350,000.

With its troops operating in theaters such as Syria and Iraq, the US has understood that ground forces and armored vehicles are sitting ducks without active protection systems due to the proliferation of antitank weaponry in the hands of both state militaries and insurgent groups. Outside the Middle East, pro-Russian rebels in the Ukraine have been reported to be using Russian-made Kornet missiles, which can strike targets more than five kilometers away using a laser beam to direct the missile and which can pierce standard armor 1,000–1,200 millimeters thick.

Maj.-Gen. David Bassett, who is in charge of the US Army’s programs in the area of ground combat systems, was quoted by the DefenseTech website in August as ultimately envisioning “a brigade’s worth of capability of Trophy on the Abrams” – one of the most heavily armored vehicles in existence.

The Trophy has been installed on Israel’s Merkava tanks since 2009, and also has been installed on the IDF’s Namer heavy infantry fighting vehicle and new armored personnel carrier, the Eitan, which is set to enter operational use for infantry battalions in the coming year.

The Trophy System received its “baptism by fire” on March 1, 2011, when it neutralized an RPG antitank rocket fired from a short range toward an IDF Merkava Mark-IV tank close to the Gaza border.

The system has since proved its efficacy in several operations, especially during Operation Protective Edge when IDF tanks operated in the Gaza Strip without suffering any losses.

Rafael declined to comment on the report.


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Is there any other tank, besides the M3 Lee & M4 Sherman, that used multiple different engines?  And that all the engine types worked?


Look at the Sherman: M4 & M4A1 had the R975, the M4A2 had the GM 6046 diesel, M4A3 had the Ford GAA, & the M4A4 the Chrysler A57. And they all worked!

Edited by ZloyKrolik
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19 minutes ago, ZloyKrolik said:

Is there any other tank, besides the M3 Lee & M4 Sherman, that used multiple different engines?  And that all the engine types worked?


Look at the Sherman: M4 & M4A1 had the R975, the M4A2 had the GM 6046 diesel, M4A3 had the Ford GAA, & the M4A4 the Chrysler A57. And they all worked!


The M48 and M103 were dieselized late in their service life, and that made a pretty substantial difference to their range.  Export/upgrade versions of the Challenger 2 and Leclerc have German MTU engines as an option instead of the original goofy British or goofy French engines respectively.  Some early T-34s had petrol engines due to shortages of the diesels.  But off the top of my head, no, I can't think of any other tank than the M3/M4 that was designed to accommodate engines with such widely different cylinder configurations.

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