Pardus Posted January 19, 2023 Report Share Posted January 19, 2023 Not sure why Germany went with TROPHY for the Leopard, when Rheinmetalls Strikeshield APS seems so much sleeker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach9889 Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 On 1/19/2023 at 1:22 AM, Pardus said: Not sure why Germany went with TROPHY for the Leopard, when Rheinmetalls Strikeshield APS seems so much sleeker. Simple answer is that Trophy meets requirements at the lowest cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pardus Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 Just now, Zach9889 said: Simple answer is that Trophy meets requirements at the lowest cost. Is it cheaper though? Or could it be a time delivery thing? There is ofcourse always the possibility of strikeshield being chosen later as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 On 1/19/2023 at 7:22 AM, Pardus said: Not sure why Germany went with TROPHY for the Leopard, when Rheinmetalls Strikeshield APS seems so much sleeker. Not a single hardkill APS tested by the German Army for the Leopard 2A7A1 (IIRC they also tested ADS/StrikeShield and Iron Fist) met all requirements. Trophy however was combat proven and thus the lowest risk option. Lord_James and Pardus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pardus Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 10 hours ago, SH_MM said: Not a single hardkill APS tested by the German Army for the Leopard 2A7A1 (IIRC they also tested ADS/StrikeShield and Iron Fist) met all requirements. Trophy however was combat proven and thus the lowest risk option. Do you know what the specific requirements were? Also is Trophy capable of protecting against multiple simultaneous attacks like ADS ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.T Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 On 1/21/2023 at 10:11 AM, Pardus said: Do you know what the specific requirements were? Also is Trophy capable of protecting against multiple simultaneous attacks like ADS ? I guess its has a lot to do with the Radar emissions of APS , active Trophy can be detected tens of kilometers away Report (https://www.janes.com/defence-news/land-forces/latest/iav-2023-eurotrophy-set-for-silent-mode-capability) that the managing director of EuroTrophy GmbH (a joint venture of the Israeli company Rafael, KMW and General Dynamics to promote the Trophy active protection system developed by Rafael to the European market) Dan Kalfus said at the International Armored Vehicles (IAV) 2023 conference in London that a set of Othello passive electro-optical sensors is being developed for the EuroTrophy APS, which will allow APS to work without activating the standard Elta EL/M-2133 radar sensors for Trophy, thereby ensuring the secrecy of operation without radio emission. In 2021, the Ministries of Defense of Israel and Germany conducted successful tests of the Rafael Trophy APS on the German Leopard 2A7 tank, which opened the way for the development and promotion of the EuroTrophy variant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted January 30, 2023 Report Share Posted January 30, 2023 LPI makes detecting an AESA not a simple thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pardus Posted February 1, 2023 Report Share Posted February 1, 2023 According to Rheinmetall Strikeshield has the lowest detectable emissions of all APS out there atm. The problem with optical sensors is dirt, which can quite quickly render such sensors useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_James Posted February 1, 2023 Report Share Posted February 1, 2023 19 hours ago, Pardus said: The problem with optical sensors is dirt, which can quite quickly render such sensors useless. Could always make a mini windshield wiper for the sensors, but that would probably be bulky/needlessly complex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pardus Posted February 2, 2023 Report Share Posted February 2, 2023 23 hours ago, Lord_James said: Could always make a mini windshield wiper for the sensors, but that would probably be bulky/needlessly complex. Yeah, I think a small high pressure water (or some cleaning/solvent fluid) spray nozzle for each small camera would be simpler (ala those you see for headlights on modern cars), but Im not sure that would always work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pardus Posted February 4, 2023 Report Share Posted February 4, 2023 Some new information on strikeshield from a couple days ago: https://www.edrmagazine.eu/iav-conference-rheinmetall-details-its-hybrid-armour-solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted June 20, 2023 Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 Patent for Arena APS on Budget Cuts 3. Patent confirms use of submunitions with orientation in horizontal plane in flight, but not in vertical. Quote twelve launcher with protective ammunition (PA) placed on brackets on the turret, while providing all-round protection of the tank due to the optimal placement of the launchers along the perimeter of the turret and correction of the position of the PA in azimuth in flight after firing; designed to install and secure protective ammunition and perform the function of a barrel when shooting Voltzz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanch90 Posted June 20, 2023 Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 33 minutes ago, LoooSeR said: Patent confirms use of submunitions with orientation in horizontal plane in flight, but not in vertical. However that alone should suffice for covering the likely approach angles of top attack ammunition. Also noteworthy is the claim that the system can protect against artillery shells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted September 7, 2023 Report Share Posted September 7, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted October 10, 2023 Report Share Posted October 10, 2023 https://www.defensenews.com/land/2023/10/09/uncertain-fate-for-active-protection-on-armys-combat-vehicles/ Quote The Army installed an active protection system on the M1 Abrams tank and fielded it in Europe, but the fate of other plans to equip similar defense measures on the service’s combat vehicles remains unclear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade334 Posted October 10, 2023 Report Share Posted October 10, 2023 And I suppose they'll be taking an even harder look at APS in light of the puzzling counter-performance of Iron Fist and Trophy in Israel these past few days. Though, to be fair, it is still not known whether it was due to an apparently increasingly endemic degradation of crew training and skill levels across IDF (i.e. crew members not properly operating the system and therefore compromising their own safety) or if it's a flaw in the system (namely, a baked-in selective response that erroneously marks certain threats as negligible...or excessively short attack ranges not giving enough time to the interceptor launchers to swivel and engage). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.T Posted October 10, 2023 Report Share Posted October 10, 2023 Anyone who mounted one of these might need to have a look under the hood if there is even a system there or just an expensive mockup as they absolutely face-planted in real action when Django Unchained in Gaza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted November 4, 2023 Report Share Posted November 4, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade334 Posted November 11, 2023 Report Share Posted November 11, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 https://x.com/RyszardJonski/status/1749103761430061079?s=20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted March 2 Report Share Posted March 2 Iron fist vs drones Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 https://breakingdefense.com/2024/03/army-inks-iron-fist-buy-for-bradley-fleet-after-years-of-budget-delays/ "“I can say that we have gone into production on APS for Bradley in limited quantities,” Dean said in a brief interview from the show floor of the AUSA Global Force conference. “We were able to find some efficiencies [in the supplemental] that allowed us to buy small quantities of Iron Fist." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan_Ghost_Bear Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 https://teamlynx-xm30.rheinmetall-arv-us.com/why-team-lynx-xm30/ Team Lynx has selected the Iron Fist Light-Decoupled for their XM30 bid. Ramlaen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 21 hours ago, Clan_Ghost_Bear said: https://teamlynx-xm30.rheinmetall-arv-us.com/why-team-lynx-xm30/ Team Lynx has selected the Iron Fist Light-Decoupled for their XM30 bid. Makes sense given its use on the Bradley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted Sunday at 11:17 AM Report Share Posted Sunday at 11:17 AM https://t.me/bayraktar1070/2081 Quote Witnesses of Bayraktar The tank is dead, long live the tank! The amount of destroyed equipment in the fields of Donbass has recently increased significantly. Armored vehicles are being hit the front line, on the march, and in parking areas. The availability of weapons against AFVs is increasing every day. I recently came across statistics according to which 2/3 of Russian tanks destroyed since the beginning of the year were taken out by FPV drones. "Detanking" is taking place on the battlefield, which means that more tanks are burning than are being produced in the entire world. Therefore, many have come to the conclusion that armored vehicles are living out their last months on the battlefield. Modern models of armored vehicles really cannot withstand a raid by a dozen FPV drones. But under any conditions the infantry will have to be thrown forward. How to do this when the whole sky is buzzing? To do this, we need a platform that will carry electronic warfare and air defense that will shoot down drones. To operate such systems, a powerful power plant on a moving chassis is required. It won’t be cheap, so it needs to be protected with armor from stray bullets and shrapnel. Moreover, it is advisable to add a cannon that will destroy enemy fortifications. And in the end, having made a circle, we again come to the tank, with a slightly modified concept. If it can provide protection from UAVs within a radius of 200 meters, then such vehicles will become the umbrella that will allow the infantry to move forward. Electronic warfare is already being actively developed, but with the physical destruction of drones everything is not so good. We urgently need reliable and widespread solutions. And as far as I understand, old systems like “Arena” do not fit the changed realities. I'll say even more. The one who solves the problem of protecting armored vehicles from FPV drones will win the battle for Ukraine. Alexander Kharchenko https://t.me/rybar/59313 Quote Military correspondent Alexander Kharchenko again raised the important topic of protecting armored vehicles in the face of the appearance of thousands of FPV drones on the battlefield, which can attack tanks in the least protected projections and lead to losses exceeding a month’s production. A lot has been said about on-board electronic warfare systems, and industrial developments can increasingly be seen on vehicles. Much less attention is paid to “air defense,” although it is necessary to the same extent to combat drones as jamming systems. 🔻Even the most advanced “jammers” will not be able to protect a tank from the same UAVs with automatic target acquisition, which are increasingly used in the SMO zone. Under these conditions, specialized and simplified active protection systems against drones are becoming a mandatory element at least for tanks. What could such an “air defense” look like? For example, turrets with buckshot with an integrated target detection system via an optical channel. There are several potential design options, and the most effective one will only be found during development and testing. ❗️Perhaps right now such things look a little futuristic and implausible. But just a year and a half ago, it was difficult to imagine hordes of FPV drones hunting even individual soldiers. Technological progress is inexorable, and we are facing a new round of “shield and sword competition.” Yes, “air defense” for equipment requires financial costs for development and production. However, this is in any case cheaper than losing tanks worth hundreds of millions of rubles each due to losses from drones costing 80 thousand rubles. Not to mention the lives of the crews of armored vehicles burning on the battlefields due to the lack of such means. #industry #Russia #Ukraine @rybar I just leave this here Spoiler alanch90 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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