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My article about ukrainian ERA "Knife" and "Duplet":   In russian: http://warfiles.ru/show-101186-ukrainskaya-dinamicheskaya-zaschita-nozh-chast-1.html http://malikobalo.appspot.com/otvaga2004.ru/

Figure from an experiment, showing how ERA is drastically less effective when it is not oblique relative to the threat:  

Today I tried to figure out the size and explosive weight of Nozh. And fuck if anyone knows. Absolutely no-one agrees with one another. It's one giant mess of people either not knowing, talking bullshit or simply confusing dimensions

 

I actually found one website which stated the sizes of Kontakt, Kontakt-5, Relikt and Nozh, but stupid little me forgot to screencap the values and now I can't find the website again.

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@UP

 

Yes it's fdifficult couse tehere are diffrent linear inert whit difrent weight, size, and material - linear an HE:

ChSCzKW-34, ChSCzKW-34A, ChSCzKW-34N, ChSCzKW-19, ChSCzKW-19A, ChSCzKW-19N

number is size of linear and letter (or  its lack) - type of linerar.

More or less -two size and 3 diffrent linear types. Not mentionet explosive.

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On 19.08.2017 at 7:33 PM, Bronezhilet said:

No. The Panzerfaust 3IT-600 most definitely has a precursor designed to set ERA off since it A) has a copper liner and B) has a highly angled liner. As can be seen in a photo I took a while ago:

 

eB7StbT.jpg

 

The Spike has a high-angle copper liner too:

equz5oI.jpg

 

And as we all (should) know, the Javelin has a precursor charge that isnt concentric with the main charge, thus it cannot be a non-initiating charge.

 

Have You consider fact that very offten models and cut-viev for exibitons are diffretn then "normal" or "regullar" weapons?

Pz3-IT600 have NIP (non initiating precursor) -what is known form manufacurer pdf....

 

Or it was changed and now it's slow-streeching-jet but cone angle is IMHO wrong fors sucht soltuion (presnt in JAGM and other)

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Militarysta said:

 

Have You consider fact that very offten models and cut-viev for exibitons are diffretn then "normal" or "regullar" weapons?

Pz3-IT600 have NIP (non initiating precursor) -what is known form manufacurer pdf....

 

Or it was changed and now it's slow-streeching-jet but cone angle is IMHO wrong fors sucht soltuion (presnt in JAGM and other)

 

 

Yes, but these ones aren't necessarily meant for exhibition. For as far as I know these models have also been used for EOD training, so they have to be accurate. I'm not even sure the Spike was allowed to be publicly shown, but hey, I got permission to photograph it so I don't care.

 

I thought the manufacturer pdf you linked only talked about the Panzerfaust 3T, not the Panzerfaust 3-IT-600.

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  • 3 weeks later...

@Bronezhilet and I noticed something very strange about Nozh ERA.  Supposedly it's an array of linear shaped charges, right?  The long rod penetrator or HEAT jet penetrates the cassette of Nozh, and sets off the explosive.  This causes the shaped charges in the Nozh to do their thing.

277663_original.jpg

 

Only... that cannot work.  Shaped charges don't work that way.

Shaped charges need to be initiated very precisely, and from a particular point.  If the chain reaction does not start in the correct portion of the high explosive, the shock wave will not collapse the liner correctly.  Shaped charges have very precisely located fuzes, and features like wave shapers to ensure that the shape of the shock wave is exactly correct before it hits the liner.

0AqiD5f.png

But as you can see, there are no obvious fuzing elements in the shaped charges of Nozh.

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Well, there are videos and photographs of Nozh/Duplet defeating tandem charge RPGs (i.e. PG-7VR/PG-29V) and older APFSDS rounds, it's hard to discard this evidence. Maybe the common description about the crescent-shaped reactive elements is wrong or they use different/fake models of Nozh for presentations, but the ERA has a lot of potential.

 

Btw. maybe it's in-flight shape might be more similar to an EFP.

 

PS: In tests a linear shaped charge similar in size to what one could expect from Duplet can penetrate 20-26 mm (mild) steel at 19 mm stand-off. Above 76 mm stand-off penetration starts to decrease. At optimum (19 - 32 mm) stand-off commercial LCS' can penetrate 38 - 51 mm steel. That seems to be in line with Nozh/Duplet. Multiple LCS hts the KE penetrator and weaken it by creating notches, so it might break during travel or when impacting the armor. Initation of the LCS is obviously tricky, but it might be possible. 

 

applsci-02-00629-g001.png

applsci-02-00629-g004.png

 

Images from http://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/2/3/629/htm

 

i5.gif

 

Seems like 15 is a "fuze cable" located in the center of the module?

 

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5 minutes ago, SH_MM said:

Well, there are videos and photographs of Nozh/Duplet defeating tandem charge RPGs (i.e. PG-7VR/PG-29V) and older APFSDS rounds, it's hard to discard this evidence. Maybe the common description about the crescent-shaped reactive elements is wrong or they use different/fake models of Nozh for presentations, but the ERA has a lot of potential.

 

Btw. maybe it's in-flight shape might be more similar to an EFP.

It might 'work', but it doesn't work as advertised/claimed. The way people claim it works (the shaped charges cutting the penetrator) is physically impossible with the currently known configuration. 

 

Yes, it's more of an EFP, a really shitty EFP.

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I find it curious that relikt and kaktus are, at least according to the patents, so normal.  No tricky shapes or new ideas, presumably just very optimized materials and explosives.


OK, new question for experts; What is self-limiting ERA?  I've seen the term before, but I have no idea what it is or how it works.

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1 hour ago, Collimatrix said:

I find it curious that relikt and kaktus are, at least according to the patents, so normal.  No tricky shapes or new ideas, presumably just very optimized materials and explosives.


OK, new question for experts; What is self-limiting ERA?  I've seen the term before, but I have no idea what it is or how it works.

ERA which quits while it's three drinks in?

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  • 1 month later...

 

On 3/23/2018 at 8:04 AM, Collimatrix said:

OK, new question for experts; What is self-limiting ERA?  I've seen the term before, but I have no idea what it is or how it works.

 

It is ERA with limited exploding area. I.e. there are documents suggesting using small pellets of explosives inside another elastic material (such as rubber or GFRP). Only one or two pellets will explode during penetration, limiting the destroyed area (in contrast to blowing up a complete ERA tile).

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59 minutes ago, SH_MM said:

 

   Can anybody link to this "Malakhit" thing to me that they are speaking about so i can laugh at it. "Malakhit" word used in a lot of Armata-related videos/articles/etc, which make me angry as no official name was presented and people here claim that it is called "Monolit". The R&D programm for Armata ERA is called "Bronepoezd-2" (Armored train-2), ar at least it is what is belived.

   Malakhit ERA was mentioned during Object 187 development, and claimed to be a base for Relikt ERA. Also Malakhit AFAIK never was pre-trigger type of ERA.

Quote

....The armor of the tank was supplemented by a new complex of dynamic defense - the prototype of the current complex of the universal ERA "Relict". According to some, not entirely reliable data, the complex of protection of the vehicle was called "Malachite".

and about BMPT

Quote

... on the BMPT - Malachite was mounted only on one single prototype /...../ as there is no Malachite in mass production.

   Where all those people are getting their info on Malakhit? There are many other ERA that they could randomly pick to spread areound like Kaktus anti-tandem ERA on Black Eagle, Karkas-2 for BMP-3 and Tifon ERA for BTR-90. 

 

   Also funny to see Armata photo when they were speaking about ERA with flyer plate, all i heard about it is that it doesn't use flyer plate. T-90MS shown during speech about self-limiting ERA... uhh.

 

 

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