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Help Wanted: "Battle of the Battle Rifles"!


Alex C.
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Hello Sturgeon's House,

 

I come to you gentlemen seeking some help, but I do believe a short introduction is in order. This is Alex C. from The Firearm Blog and it is my job to remove any credibility from the blog that Sturgeon places there.

That said, a while back I came up with the idea to form a complimentary youtube channel that I host as a counterpart to TFB itself. Since then, I have nearly stopped writing reviews and focused more on video. I am a history nut (it was my major) with a deep appreciation for firearms (automobiles are my true passion, but don't tell my readers/viewers!).

 

So Sturgeon and I emailed back and forth yesterday about this upcoming test and the consensus was that this might be a great place to help refine the testing parameters of an upcoming video test: "Battle of the Battle Rifles".

 

 

Which battle rifle (sorry for the colloquialism) reigns supreme? Only rifles that were issued with select fire capabilities will be included, and I will try to round up a few more rifles that fit the bill (7.62x51 Galil and so on).

 

I believe allocating 100 rounds to each gun is about what our sponsor will agree to. This is difficult, because do we get someone with no experience to do an impressions, handling characteristics, and accuracy test or do we get someone familiar with all of them to perform the test?

Keep in mind that I have to be conscious of viewer retention rate, so I cannot devote too much time explaining the intricacies of each gun (as much as I would like to).

I also believe that since so many firearms are being covered, I will need to break the video up into two 15 minute sections.

 

So that is where I am at so far. I would be receptive to any and all ideas on how to best perform the test and do each rifle justice. Also, since this is a board about infantry tools and tactics, I would gladly provide any photos of these firearms you would like to see!

 

Thank you.

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Welcome, Mr. Alex!

     Here are some of my thoughts. 

 

     At first it would be interesting to give just one rifle to a somebody who never fired one of those, give him 3 or 5 rounds just to show recoil and how fast shooter can recover after a shot. Just to introduce viewers to what those guns feels in hand of newcomer and to see general level of recoil, so they can later compare it to others participants.

     

     Than those rifles can be compared in 2 situations - short range fast shooting and long range shooting. Give each rifle to someone who knows them/have experience, 4-5 round per each (or more, if you can) and try to quickly hit 4-5 targets at close range, each target at some distance from each other (2-4 meters, maybe?). This will give some impressions about how each rifle handles, "pointability", how bad is recoil, how hard/easy is to accomplish test objective with each gun. Maybe even use a timer and look at accuracy of shots after this test. This whole "CQB" test can be part 1 video, and Long range shooting can be your Part 2.

     During first test you can introduce each rifle between showing actual "CQB" test, say about some of its key features, some history behind, but keep it short. In the end of video do small and informative summary so viewers will leave this video with feeling/understanding that there was some usefull/interesting information, but again, summary should be short.

 

    "Long range" part - maybe look at accuracy and aiming devices, available for them? IDK at this moment. 

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Myself, I'd agree with LoooSer for the short range test.

 

For  a 'battle rifle' test, I'd like to see them tested on human sized targets at what I would call DMR combat ranges.  So 600-1100 meters with at least a 4X sight.

 

Edit: Also, welcome to SH. The Dark Side can be comforting. :P

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I'd include a couple clearing drills by loading dummy round(s) in the mags, as well as mandatory magazine changes.

Then a mixed range course of fire, with targets from 50 to 250 meters.  (This depends on what you have for range of course. )

 

Lastly, a simulated cleaning session, where possible..

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Myself, I'd agree with LoooSer for the short range test.

 

For  a 'battle rifle' test, I'd like to see them tested on human sized targets at what I would call DMR combat ranges.  So 600-1100 meters with at least a 4X sight.

 

Edit: Also, welcome to SH. The Dark Side can be comforting. :P

 

That would be really tricky to do, especially since I'm not sure Alex could scrounge up optics mounts for each rifle easily.

A good sense of each rifle's capabilities at range could probably be obtained at the 200 yard mark, honestly.

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I go with  standard range of targets from 50 to 300 meters. Each rifle fired from a standing, kneeling, sitting, and prone positions. A quick run through a tactical range if you have access. Field stripping, maintenance, magazine loading and reloading. I'd also use experienced shooters if you want to get the most accurate results. 

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Maybe not complete noobs but people who have at least touched a rifle once. Even the greenest of the green usually have ~20 hours of basic weapon training before doing live fire. 

I don't know if things ease immediate/remedial action on the rifles and ease of mechanical or battle sight zeroing are going to be to much in detail for a video? 

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You don't have to show every little bit of someone fumbling through a mag swap or takedown, but if you notice that all the "noobs"  have similar issues on the same rifle it's worth noting.

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Did you intentionally arrange them from prettiest to ugliest?

In any case, something like LoooSer's suggestion sounds pretty good. Getting your candidates to lug the rifle and a simulated load of ammunition around for a day hike also sounds like a good idea.

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That would be really tricky to do, especially since I'm not sure Alex could scrounge up optics mounts for each rifle easily.

A good sense of each rifle's capabilities at range could probably be obtained at the 200 yard mark, honestly.

 

     If what you have is 200 meters and iron sights, watching a video where guys are just shooting 6 rifles while standing around would be not very interesting. How about trying to shot rifles using different grips and stances? 

 

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:D

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I'd also go with a long summer walk with the guns and a few full mags. That, and getting into/out of a typical truck/APC-sized seat. See which ones are easier to haul around. Then mail me the AR-10 and let me have it.

 

You want it a lot less than you think, trust me.

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Yeah, I know lightweight .308 is a concussion hazard but goddamn it's just beautiful. I mostly just wanna goof with the charging handle for a few hours.

NoDakSpud makes an upper that has the "trigger" style charging handle.

 

http://www.nodakspud.com/RetroAR15.pdf

 

http://www.nodakspud.com/AR%20Lowers.htm

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Great suggestions here guys, I sincerely appreciate the input.

 

However realize that time constraints and audience retention are serious concerns, so something like filming a man walking with a gun for an extended period of time would not only be time consuming (we can only film about 7 hours per day) but people want to see shooting and action.

 

Loooser, I really like your short-range suggestion. A timed session on 3 IDPA silhouettes would be great to showcase handling and maneuverability, all while providing the action shots people want to see.

 

Meplat, I would like to cover disassembly in individual videos. Some of the more obscure rifles will be showcased separately(coming soon to TFBTV: Why Full Auto FALs Suck).

But yes, magazine changes are in order. I just need to round up an addition sig 510-4 magazine.

 

For the long range test, the greatest distance we have access to is 320 meters but I do believe that we absolutely need to do a 100 meter/yard test as is standard for most youtube videos. The good news is that we have just received a great amount of AR500 steel targets from our sponsor. I think setting up a gong at 300 meters and recording number of hits out of 10 might be a nice, easy way to do a long range test (with a greenhorn behind the gun).
 

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However realize that time constraints and audience retention are serious concerns, so something like filming a man walking with a gun for an extended period of time would not only be time consuming (we can only film about 7 hours per day) but people want to see shooting and action.

 

I guess I'd like to hear about things relating to my suggestion, even if they're only lightly touched upon. Weight and physical dimensions would be a nice thing to factor into the typical online discussion like this where people mostly like to examine data pertaining to things like caliber, power, etc. One of the reasons why I liked your Conceal-Carry video was because you weren't jamming high-capacity dragon-killers in peoples' face, talking more about practicality for purpose than anything else. Joining a gun club recently, I've gotten to talk to some people who've given more interesting insight on guns like these for competitions, contests, or military service, and it's interesting when they talk about what they'd rather have when getting in and out of tight spaces or having to haul around for long periods of time in nasty conditions.

 

I'm a boring nerd who hikes through the Appalachians with my ancient Savage .22, so it's something I'm interested in. I understand it doesn't make for interesting video content.

 

Never got the chance to compliment your videos, though. You guys do a great job. I'm picky as hell and Forgotten Weapons is the only other Youtube gun video series I watch (not counting comedy stuff like Carnik). Keep it up.

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Thank you very much Brick Fight. On the concealed carry video we took a lot of flak from the gentlemen who insist on carrying the USS Nimitz or nothing at all!

That video was also more Patrick's brainchild. In all honestly, I seldom carry a gun (but do keep one in my vehicle).

 

I do like your suggestion as to what gun would be easiest to tote around in a vehicle. The only issue would be how to showcase this in a short amount of time. Maybe a montage with a voiceover? I.E. "Here we see john getting in and out of the Jeep with the AR10. With a time of 20.48 seconds, this was the fastest. The FAL came in last at 26.92 seconds seen here. In order from fastest to slowest, the drill ranking is AR10, X, X, X, X, X, and the FAL had the worst time".

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    I think showing just one rifle going through such test will be enough. Let it be a small "brake for a giggle" for viewers, which will remind them about size and [un]practical side of those guns in general. 

    Or

    Combine quick close range shooting with car/jeep - fire from car at targets at different sides/angles of the car. 

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