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2 hours ago, Bronezhilet said:

It's not better at poking a hole in solid steel, but it should be way better at poking a hole in a NERA package.

 

Wouldn't that depend on how much spacing there is between the main jet and tertiary jet? If the head of the main jet were touching or nearly touching the tail of the tertiary jet, then I imagine that the bulging of the NERA when initiated by the tertiary jet could still catch the main jet. My impression is that this isn't a true triple charge design in terms of delay between the 3 charges, but that the the main and tertiary charges are used to create a single long jet by precise timing.

 

Also, something to keep in mind that having a hole in the middle of the main charge does decrease its efficiency. So perhaps a reason that this design hasn't caught on is that it's not the most mass efficient choice when designing a warhead.

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8 minutes ago, DD000 said:

 

Wouldn't that depend on how much spacing there is between the main jet and tertiary jet? If the head of the main jet were touching or nearly touching the tail of the tertiary jet, then I imagine that the bulging of the NERA when initiated by the tertiary jet could still catch the main jet. 

Correct.

9 minutes ago, DD000 said:

My impression is that this isn't a true triple charge design in terms of delay between the 3 charges, but that the the main and tertiary charges are used to create a single long jet by precise timing.

Yeah the timing these charges have basically determines 'what it is'. 

But if your goal is to create one long jet, why not have a single low angle charge? They have more than enough length to do so.

 

18 minutes ago, DD000 said:

Also, something to keep in mind that having a hole in the middle of the main charge does decrease its efficiency. So perhaps a reason that this design hasn't caught on is that it's not the most mass efficient choice when designing a warhead.

It doesn't impact the penetration depth by that much though.

 

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Well, regardless of what the triple-charge design was supposed to do, apparently it didn't work that well, as the Russians haven't pursued such a design since, to my knowledge. Nor has any other nation even attempted to adopt such a design.

 

Seems like the tandem charge is here to stay for the forseeable future.

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@Bronezhilet@DD000

 

http://proceedings.ndia.org/1590/11756.pdf

"HF IBFS is a tandem warhead system composed of an ø83mm precursor and a multipurpose ø143mm K-charge warhead. The tandem warhead system is capable of engaging and defeating heavy armor tanks, modern urban structures, light shipping vessels, and various soft targets. The ø83mm precursor is a shaped charge warhead containing a conical metallic liner and is capable of defeating the most advanced Explosive Reactive Armor (ERA) encountered on modern tanks. The ø143mm K-Charge warhead employs a variable wall thickness metallic liner and is the primary kill mechanism when engaging heavy armor tanks, light armor personnel carriers, or shipping vessels. The ø143mm K-Charge is packaged in a hardened steel body and is capable of penetrating and defeating a suite of modern urban structures and bunkers. The hardened steel body provides exceptional lethality against soft targets via high velocity fragments and overpressure impulse. The HF IBFS warhead incorporates Insensitive Munition (IM) explosive as well as an inventive, thermally activated aft closure to comply with IM standards and protect the warfighter during hazardous battlefield environments."

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52 minutes ago, Militarysta said:

1984, Leopard 2 in soviet report:

nDwNyfG.png

 

 

pvKIKoe.png

 

As we can see - Soviet assume Leopard 2 armour in 1984 on 400-450mm vs KE and 550-600mm vs HEAT

 

 

Yes but they don't say where (it's almost universal that the turret gets better armor), and they don't base their findings on anything.

 

400mm vs KE and 550-600mm vs CE seems more like well considered speculations than the results of actual tests. 

 

There're plenty other, more credible and better-sourced sources of information that provide us with a much clearer picture of the approximate armor values of the Leo 2.

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https://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/900675.html#cutid1

1280549_1000.jpg

 

Chieftain: 250 mm vs KE on turret and hull

Challenger 1: 500 mm vs KE on turret and at least 275 mm vs KE on hull.

Challenger 2 (1980s project): at least 500 mm vs KE on turret and hull

 

More from same source (WT forums):

1281012_original.jpg

5_fc129367f80ae126395adf420a7699ab.png

7_8c8e201c016ed7cc7ed471183925cc67.png

6_65d56835cd96fa841afed59b3836f0e4.png

 

On 6/29/2018 at 10:23 PM, DD000 said:

Very late to the party, but in the swedish document where it describes the protection estimates for the Leopard 2 improved, it assumes a single charge for the CE protection value, right? I'm curious as to how tandem charges would affect those estimates, as pretty much all serious atgm threats these days are tandem charges.

 

According to British documents on the development of Chobham armor, tandem charges provide superior penetration against it (and other types of special armor). That means the protection levels in Sweden are exaggerated against modern ATGMs.

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