Polish Armoured Vehicles

[Militarysta]

Firstly - Strong Europe Tank Challenge - polish platoon take a part in this competition.

 

http://11ldkpanc.wp.mil.pl/pl/101_2295.html

(Through these two days the soldiers of 34 Armoured Cavalry Brigade from Zagan performed the most important competition of the competition. It was carrying out activities platoon in offensive and defensive operations. As a platoon conducting defensive operations have earned the highest number of points, ranking the first place. However, during the attack they gave way only to the best platoon in Germany.

 

Galery:
http://11ldkpanc.wp.mil.pl/pl/4_1057.html

nice photos from there:

 

Today will be known winner od the Strong Europe Tank Challenge

 

[Militarysta]

Very interesting video form serial "Our Army":

Worth to see is part from 12:01 on video. We can see there polish made 120mm self-propelled motar. Very interesting part about autoloader, BMS, how it works, etc.
12:01:
http://vod.tvp.pl/25030888/14052016

all about this weapons system:

 

 

Few country are interesting to buy this motar system from Poland and put on local chassis:

- Ukraina (very advanced agreement) on BTR4 and other chassis

- Czech Republic (on Pandur)

- two unkown to public countries form middle east

 

Polish army bought 64 wheel motars and will buy about the same motars on new IFV chassis -after 2019.

few photo set from linked video:

[Militarysta]

======================
Strong Europe Tank Challenge -  polish platoon was third in generall calyfication:
 

1st place - Germans

2th place - Dutch

3th place - Poles

To be hones - polish platoon was the best in defensive shooting and second in offensive shooting but Poles lose  some points in other skills - countr IED reaction, medavec and other, so in summery they have third place. But whole Strong Europe Tank Challenge looks very greate - interesting and difficult competition.

https://www.army.mil/article/167842/?platform=hootsuite

GRAFENWOEHR, Germany -- The German platoon took top honors in the Strong Europe Tank Challenge, a three-day competition that tested offensive and defensive operations and mounted orienteering, with Denmark and Poland placing second and third, May 13, 2016.

Seven platoons from six NATO nations took part in the U.S. Army Europe and German Bundeswehr-sponsored competition that was hosted by 7th Army Joint Multinational Training Command, May 10-12, here.

Units that participated included Denmark's 1st Platoon, 1st Tank Company, 1st Tank Battalion; Germany's Platoon C, Company 3, Mountain Panzer Battalion 8, Panzer Brigade 12; Italy's 1st Platoon, 2nd Company, 8th Battalion, 132nd Regiment; Poland's 11th Lubuska Armoured Cavalry Division, 34th Armoured Cavalry Brigade, 1st Battalion, 1st Company, 1st Platoon; Slovenia's Wolf Platoon, 45th Center of Tracked Combat Vehicles; and the U.S. Army's 1st Platoon, D Company and 3rd Platoon, C Company both from 2nd Battalion, 7th Infantry Regiment, 1st Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division.

All platoons brought four tanks each to compete. Poland and Denmark both operated Leopard 2A5 tanks, each with crews of four soldiers. Slovenia competed with M-84 tanks with three people in each. Germany brought four-person crews to man Leopard 2A6 tanks. Italy's four-person crews operated Ariete tanks. The U.S. had two platoons using M1A2 tanks with four Soldiers in each one.

"To maintain the whole portfolio of capabilities, it is really important to also train together with tanks," said German Army Brig. Gen. Markus Laubenthal, chief of staff for U.S. Army Europe. "We want to promote the capabilities of armored warfare and tanks because it is needed.

"It is really important to work together with other nations as close as you can," he said. "Only training and integration build interoperability and trust for success in multinational operations."

Platoons rotated throughout the three events, vying for a possible 1,000 points. Crews conducted both offensive and defensive operations involving fire and maneuver for 350 possible points in each lane.

Mounted orienteering had a possible 300 points that was combined from six 50-point tasks, including a mystery physical challenge that emphasized teamwork. Platoons navigated through an obstacle course with 13 challenges. Soldiers fired 10 rounds from three different locations using their own service weapons during the combat pistol shoot lane. The vehicle identification lane tested the platoons' abilities to identify 25 friendly and threatening vehicles while traversing through a course. Crews had to recover, hook up and tow vehicles while under a simulated chemical attack. Finally, multinational teams reacted to an improvised explosive device, assessed and treated a casualty, and requested a medical evacuation.

This was the first multinational tank challenge that took place here since 1991, and the event fostered military partnership while promoting NATO interoperability.

"Grafenwoehr is an excellent place to do this because the maintenance areas are great, the ranges are great and the accommodations are great," Laubenthal said. "We can really accommodate many, many nations here together.

[Militarysta]

Greate video of polish and NATO trening "Anaconda-16" - typical spring polish army trening.

Worth to see ) Especialy big explosion during countr mine cleaning.

 

[Belesarius]

I love the mix of equipment in the Polish army. Leo 2s, BMP-2s, Mi-8s and Blackhawks...  It's like a fusion of the best of the Sov Block and US/EU.

[Toxn]

One of the key components of a Polished armoured vehicle:

 

[Militarysta]

Very nice video made from soilders for polish general Mieczysław Różański - present General Commander of the armed forces. He will be retired soon, and this is "godbay" movie:

 

Title: "Follow me!" (Za mną!)

[Militarysta]

Polish ANAKONDA-16 (Anaconda) trening on videos. NATO and polish soilders in the bigest (after 1989) trening in Poland:

 

couple of videos:

 

US Tanks, IFV, and motars + polish 2S1:

 

 

paratroopers:

 

 

SAAM Kub in action:

 

 

Making bridge on Wisła river (yes, huge river) in 45minutes

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Militarysta]

ps:

 

 

More tank and APC/IFV videos I will post soon :-)

[Militarysta]

1989; old good conscript army of "People Republic od Poland"

 

from 0:33 on movie - hand granades vs T-72M1 )

 

[Militarysta]

IFV Rosomak (fully polonisated AMV)

 

[LoooSeR]

PT-91 version, suprised that mili didn't posted them here 

 

 

[Damian]

It's an older video but worth to watch.

 

I will describe situation with our heavy armor a bit later, but now also very important topic, artillery.
 
Let's start with new 155mm self propelled howitzers. There are two projects, wheeled and tracked, let's start with the later one.
 
155mm AHS Krab is a tracked self propelled howitzer based on modified british AS90/52 turret and south korean K9 chassis, initially desire was to use domestically designed and produced UPG chassis, but because it was based on T-72 tank components that were designed for vehicle weighting below 50 metric tons, and Krab weighted 55 metric tons, it's performance was rather poor. Also quality of that chassis didn't meet army requirements so decision was made to use foreign chassis in the end. Only 8 AHS Krab vehicles on older UPG chassis were made, and are currently used for crews training.

This is old Krab on UPG chassis.

And this is new Krab on K9 chassis.

Currently AHS Krab passed all factory and state trails and is mass produced at the moment with first units being inducted in to service. Hulls are now made in South Korea, but production of these hulls will be moved to Poland. The good thing is we purchased full license, which means we can also modify these hulls design and use for other applications, as well as reexport them. Also if Norway or other European countries would purchase South Korean K9 Thunder, it's possible that these would have made hulls in Poland, and Poland would become service center for them.
 
AHS Krab will replace 122mm AHS 2S1 Gvozdika and partially 152mm AHS Dana.

Here you can watch production capabilities of the HSW factory.

Another project, directly to replace AHS Dana is AHS Kryl.

AHS Kryl is designed as lightweight and very mobile system to supplement heavier AHS Krab. While Krab is intended to support heavy formations like Armored and Armored Cavalry Brigades, Kryl will support mainly medium formations builded around family of wheeled combat vehicles Rosomak. Kryl uses Israeli ATMOS 2000 howitzer based on new model of Jelcz truck.
 
To supplement these, there is also developed universal turret module with 120mm mortar Rak with autoloader, there will be two variants, wheeled SMK 120 Rak-K, and tracked SMG 120 Rak-G. Right now there are performed final preparations for starting mass production of SMK 120 Rak-K based on Rosomak chassis.

As I mentioned, turret module is universal, so can be installed on wheeled and tracked platforms, but also on static platforms/fortifications or navy vessels.
 
Now about rocket artillery.
 
The primary MLRS currently used is WR-40 Langusta, which is modrnized BM-21 Grad, wich increased range, crew protection, mobility, communications etc.

There was also project of WR-40 Langusta-2 which had additional missile rack with autoloader for rapid reload.

It was however not purchased yet by Polish Army, it might happen when more WR-40's will be ordered to replace last BM-21's and RM-70's.
 
The last project is WR-300 Homar, right now the prefered offer is polonized US M142 HIMARS system.

This is how it can look more or less, using the same Jelcz truck model as 155mm AHS Kryl.
 
Additional double purpose system are NSM missiles used in Coastal Missile Squadron (currently one in service, second on order), besides capability to attack enemy vessels, it have also secondary mode, that gives it capability to attack and destroy ground targets.

[Damian]

Now about some good stuff, heavy armor.

T-72M1, we have around 350 these tanks in total, with around 159 in active service. No upgrades are planned for them, and are meant to be replaced as soon as it will be possible.

PT-91 "Twardy", Poland have around 232 of these in active service. Improvements over standard T-72M1 include, new 850HP diesel S-12U, new explosive reactive armor ERAWA-1 and ERAWA-2 (I will post separate informations about them later), fire control system Drawa or it's improved variant Radew, improved TPD-K1 day sight and also thermal sight, there are two variants of thermal sights, older Israeli made TES, and new Polish 2nd gen FLIR KLW-1 "Asteria". Vehicle is also equipped with self defense system SSP-1 Obra-3 which includes both laser warning receivers, and new smoke dischargers Tellur mounted on the both sides of turret. Other major improvements were only included in export variants PT-91Ex, PT-91M and PT-91P. There was also a technology demonstrator called PT-16 that is a proposal for T-72M1 and PT-91 tanks upgrade, however the proposal contains two solutions for turret, either rebuild + addon armor for existing turret, which was presented on the technology demonstrator, and second, probably new welded low profile turret based on the UMPG Anders design.

PT-16 technology demonstrator.

Poland purchased from Germany 142 Leopard 2A4 tanks, currently upgrade codenamed Leopard 2PL is developed by Rhinemetall and polish industry.

Leopard 2PL technology dekonstrator.

Besides Leopard 2A4's, also 105 Leopard 2A5's are in service.

BWP-1 as BMP-1 is called here, we still have around 1268 of these antiques in service, tough replacement for them is currently in development, codename "Borsuk". It is still uncertain if "Borsuk" will be based on domestically designed chassis, or on foreign one purchased via license, both options are currently considered, also issue with amphibious capabilities are debated, initially there was requirement for new IFV to be amphibious, but after intelligence reports from Ukraine, now it's considered that perhaps heavier armor is a better choice.
 
Also new IFV "Borsuk" will be equipped with unmanned turret ZSSW-30. Armed with 30mm ATK Mk44, 7,62mm coax, and Spike ATGM's. Same turret is also intended as upgrade for Rosomak wheeled IFV.

Early concept model of IFV "Borsuk".

Now about Rosomak, this is the basic Rosomak M1 variant which is literally just wheeled IFV, equipped with manned turret Hitfist-30P armed with 30mm Mk44 and 7,62mm coax, there is also planned upgrade for these turrets to equip them with Spike ATGM's launchers.

Here is also IFV variant with unmanned turret ZSSW-30 prototype on the firing range.
 
There were many more specialized variants of Rosomak developed. For example fire support variant with 105mm gun or 120mm gun, yet these are not ordered by Polish Army, tough 120mm variant might be eventually ordered.

Rosomak/Wilk armed with 120mm gun.

Rosomak-M with upgraded Hitfist-30P turret, as well as new addon armor acting also as buoyancy elements improving vehicles amphibious capabilities.

Experimental Rosomak-XP with improved suspension and armor protection + some minor improvements.

Rosomak WRT, you can consider it as ARV variant of Rosomak family.

Rosomak WEM.
 
Of course there are many more variants in development.
 
Another interesting R&D program was UMPG Anders for modular tracked platform.

Single technology demonstrator was build and later to prove it's modularity reconfigured in to several variants, these were.

Light tank with 120mm gun in low profile manned turret.

Light tank with 105mm gun in CT-CV turret.

IFV variant with Hitfist-30P turret.

IFV with unmanned Hitfist-OWS turret.

Unmanned autonomous tank destroyer with Spike ATGM's in AMUR weapons module.

Improved IFV variant with new version of Hitfist-30P turret with Spike ATGM launchers.
 

 

 

[Scolopax]

Concerning the Krab, what is the rational for mating two different foreign vehicles together (AS-90 turret and K9 hull), instead of just getting the entirety of one or the other?  Is it a cost thing perhaps?

[Damian]

3 minutes ago, Scolopax said:

Concerning the Krab, what is the rational for mating two different foreign vehicles together (AS-90 turret and K9 hull), instead of just getting the entirety of one or the other?  Is it a cost thing perhaps?

To understand this situation we need to get back to the 90's. The original concept was, that Poland would purchase a turret and armament system, preferably as a license, and then mate it with domestic chassis, the UPG.

However UPG chassis was a complete failure, primary because it uses subcomponents from T-72M1/PT-91 tanks that are not designed for vehicles weighting way over 50 metric tons, and AHS Krab weights 55 metric tons when based on UPG chassis. And there were also problems with quality of steel used and welding, that lead to micro fractures.

Besides let's be honest, engine, transmission, cooling system, suspension etc. Are obsolete, army simply didn't liked UPG chassis.

But we got it right with the turret that was fully functional and meet or exceeded requirements. It would be then waste to purchase a complete new system, so decision was made to discard UPG chassis and purchase a better foreign chassis, choice was the South Korean K9 chassis.

Now the army is extremely happy with AHS Krab based on K9 chassis, it actually not only meet but exceeded all requirements.

[Militarysta]

So, small update of Polish Armoured Forces program:

 

1) IFV "Borsuk" (Badger program)

 

 

The most important polish armured program couse still using obsolate BWP-1 IFV. The whole program have big turn couse MoD accused swiming requirement  and now "Badger" will not swim and have combat weight around 40 metric tons. Two prototypes  has been made in HSW Facotry and one of them have now test trials. It will be shown on MSPO exebition in sebtember in Kielce city in Poland. In this program is conected new polish RCWS turret (ZSSW-30) whit 30mm ATK-44 and 2x Spike ATGM. More or less, despite 24 months delay, all is correct in this program now.

 

2. Leopard 2PL program.

 

And here are first problem. But not whit tank on RH themselfs but rather on typical polish-poles war between two polish factories. What worse - cost modernization was underestimated couse polish Bumar factory must bought mucht more equipment and...personell then have. Bumar is trying to fell all on german side what couse bigger cost per one tank and MoD is angry for that. So in "time axis" whole program is corret and german partner is doing his job wery well but polish facotry (as ussallly..) fucked up it's part. Propably wil, be big turn in this program soon. Now circa 80 Leopard 2A4 are dismounted in factory and waiting for...polish factory competition growth :/

 

3. Armoured MGS vehicle on chassis platform "Gepard" ( cheetah)

 

Thanks God it was canceled  

 

4. PT-91 tank and T-72M1 modernisation program.

 

 

 

 

Yes, yes, cheetah program was canceled what forced T-72M1 and PT-91 modernisation  

 

T-72M1 modernisation will be wery limited - only night vision for gunner and passive for Tc + new programable radio and new amunition. And thats all.

 

In case PT-91 - the scope of the modernization will be done in July. Now there are 3 possible proposition waiting for MoD decision:

 

1st - PT-91MZ variant (scania engine+ renk, new FCS, new gun, new most tank components to be honest)

2th - limited modernisation: New gun, turret drives, stabilisathion, partially new FCS, turret ring, radio etc - so only fire power growth + C3

3th - most limited only "refresh" - FCS modernisation, new thermal cameras, amunition and mostly that all 

 

Result will be known in June.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mighty_Zuk]

Any news on Poland's future tank program? I believe it was interested in participating directly in the Leopard 3 program between KMW and Nexter, but haven't heard any news on that for a long time.

[Militarysta]

Yes, Poland is looking now strong partner to participated in his IV gen tank program. There  are sevral options but nothing sure now.

[SH_MM]

On 17.6.2017 at 0:07 PM, Militarysta said:

4. PT-91 tank and T-72M1 modernisation program.

 

 

 

 

Yes, yes, cheetah program was canceled what forced T-72M1 and PT-91 modernisation  

 

T-72M1 modernisation will be wery limited - only night vision for gunner and passive for Tc + new programable radio and new amunition. And thats all.

 

In case PT-91 - the scope of the modernization will be done in July. Now there are 3 possible proposition waiting for MoD decision:

 

1st - PT-91MZ variant (scania engine+ renk, new FCS, new gun, new most tank components to be honest)

2th - limited modernisation: New gun, turret drives, stabilisathion, partially new FCS, turret ring, radio etc - so only fire power growth + C3

3th - most limited only "refresh" - FCS modernisation, new thermal cameras, amunition and mostly that all 

 

Result will be known in June.

 

So is the PT-16 being considered option (1) or (2)? Or does neither version feature a 120 mm gun + add-on composite armor?

[Militarysta]

neither version,

 

In Polish MoD opinnion change gun is pointless for cost reson - in result this one change we have almoust new tank whit all bad features from T-72 layout.

IMHO - goood decisoon to stay whit 125mm. Maybe it's limitedy by patronen lenght but it's much't more cost effective to stay whit 125mm.

 

 

[Militarysta]

It's very possibe that Poland will buy 53 spanish Leopard 2A4.

Those tank will be rebuild and upgrade to 2PL in 2021-2023.

 

Now there are negotiation between polish and spanish MoD aboit those tanks, tankers are rather opposide to thise plans - those spanish tanks are in very very bad condioton so facotry rebulid + upgrade to 2PL propably will be cost close to buy new Leos from Germans...

Anyway - as I said -it's very possible that Poland will buy this 53 Leos.

[Mighty_Zuk]

First Polish Army unit receives full complement of Krab SPHs

 

Quote

 

Deliveries of Krab 155 mm self-propelled howitzers (SPHs) to the Masurian Artillery Regiment (11 MPA) will be completed this month, marked by a ceremony on 31 August in the presence of officials from the ministry of defence, the unit said on its website. Fourteen Krabs were delivered to the regiment by tank transporters on 31 July.

Fourteen Krab SPHs were delivered by tank transporters to the Masurian Artillery Regiment (11 MPA) on 31 July. (11 MPA)

The 11 MPA will be the first of four squadrons (Dywizjonowy Modul Ogniowy: DMO) to receive its full complement of the Krab. Each DMO comprises 24 Krabs, three command staff vehicles, eight command post vehicles, six ammunition supply vehicles, and one mobile armament and electronics workshop vehicle.

 

 

http://www.janes.com/article/72874/first-polish-army-unit-receives-full-complement-of-krab-sphs

 

 

This is great news!

[SH_MM]

New T-72/PT-91 upgrade (new version of the PT-16 or a PT-17?):

 

 

Spoiler

 

[Xoon]

6 minutes ago, SH_MM said:

New T-72/PT-91 upgrade (new version of the PT-16 or a PT-17?):

 

 

  Hide contents

 

Damian called it the PT-91M2. 

And a link he posted: https://katowice.tvp.pl/33765287/bum...zacji-twardego