Israeli AFVs

[Mighty_Zuk]

The JLTV and derivatives are indeed considered, but as I said the IDF is currently involved in a very long series of parallel acquisitions and R&D projects.

 

Key projects include:

Rebuilding of training camps and bases.

Creation of new logistical centers.

Re-equipping the entire truck fleet.

New F-35 aircraft.

New tankers.

New medium cargo helicopters.

Dolphin 2 submarines.

Sa'ar 6 corvettes (frigates).

Merkava 4 Barack.

Eitan IFV.

Namer IFV.

Carmel.

New uniforms.

New howitzers.

New 'smart' sights.

New BMS.

New APS.

More Iron Dome batteries/missiles.

More Stunner missiles.

Iron Beam.

 

And of course a good chunk of its budget goes towards paying huge pensions, and it has recently also increased salaries across the board by some 50%.

 

This is a huge amount of work the IDF is trying to complete in such a little amount of time, despite no significant change to the economy or budget.

It is practically unprecedented for it.

 

So it is totally understandable that they may lack money for some unmentioned projects, like the several thousands of needed MRAPs, or V-22 aircraft for its special forces.

 

[VPZ]

 

[Mighty_Zuk]

It's called "Panther" (with a hard T), based on the FMTV as I've guessed, and is quite ugly, keeping with the Ze'ev's legacy.

It weighs in excess of 10 tons, built for peacekeeping operations, and is the 2nd prototype.

A final prototype will include 2 collapsible seats for arrests.

 

It is said that equipping it with light Trophy is too expensive (duh), and not required for its mission parameters anyway.

[SPARTAN ARMED]

Why idf idf never have put turrets on m113 like samson for reserves miluim ! did anybody know if they going to have the plasan yagu!

[Mighty_Zuk]

11 minutes ago, SPARTAN ARMED said:

Why idf idf never have put turrets on m113 like samson for reserves miluim ! did anybody know if they going to have the plasan yagu!

The M113 are too old, too poorly protected, and too underpowered, to have any significant capability upgrade without creating an entirely new vehicle.

 

These turrets will be mounted on Namer and Eitan IFVs.

 

As for the Yagu, there is currently no plan to purchase them. The niche it fills is not ideal for the IDF.

 

It is suitable for a small crew and small capacity. Protection is limited and seems to be fitted far more for special forces rather than regular forces. 

 

Plasan offers, other than the Yagu, the Hyrax and the Sandcat, which can replace the David and HMMWV respectively.

[Mighty_Zuk]

IAI's ADA family of products now reaches ground combat vehicles in the ADA-O version. 

It's a device that enables maintaining the GPS link even in environments with intense jamming.

It goes without saying that operation in GPS-jammed environment has been a major capability desired, and thus reflected in R&D of many pieces of equipment, for a few years now.

Spoiler

 

 

Rafael has also chosen to start marketing its FireWeaver system, a major evolution in the architecture of BMS, and now says it is the world's most mature system, following successful field trials with the IDF.

Spoiler

 

 

[SPARTAN ARMED]

Will tzahal have again anti aircraft units like they have with vulcans! and why the never have the spyder system! the american army will have many system on stryker and bradley did they wait to put on eitan or the carmel it will take years. 

[SPARTAN ARMED]

The new MRAP is very good an armored truck its better than sufa jeeps and more ergonomic but tzahal sould replace all jeeps and m113 with new ones soon.

[Marsh]

7 minutes ago, SPARTAN ARMED said:

The new MRAP is very good an armored truck its better than sufa jeeps and more ergonomic but tzahal sould replace all jeeps and m113 with new ones soon.

Are you going to provide the money? What is preferable and what is possible are not necessarily the same. 

Marsh

[LoooSeR]

1 hour ago, SPARTAN ARMED said:

Spoiler

Will tzahal have again anti aircraft units like they have with vulcans! and why the never have the spyder system! the american army will have many system on stryker and bradley did they wait to put on eitan or the carmel it will take years. 

 

   Spartan, you need to improve your posting. Those posts are badly composed and this one made my eyes bleed.

[Mighty_Zuk]

Yes, the IDF will have mobile IADS systems like the several decades old Vulcan, it will be called Gideon's Shield and will include a mobile Iron Dome battery and an unspecified laser-based weaponry, could be Iron Beam or a low powered laser to down quadcopters.

 

And it won't buy the SpyDer because it already has the Iron Dome instead, and because these two systems fulfill two very different needs. Iron Dome is an extremely versatile system with a focus on very cheap operation that is excellent against ballistic threats and adequate against other threats, while the SpyDer utilizes substantially more expensive components that increase its capability specifically against fixed wing aircraft and distant cruise missiles, but completely invalid against ballistic threats due to its cost.

 

When it comes to intercepting aircraft breaching Israeli airspace, the IDF already possesses plenty enough IADS systems that are extremely capable in that role, such as the PAC-2GEM, David's Sling, and a well dispersed aerial fleet.

 

It's true that Rafael and IAI are government-owned, and design and build things based on IDF requirements, but they too develop technologies and weapon systems geared for export.

[VPZ]

 

This

[Mighty_Zuk]

2 minutes ago, VPZ said:

 

This

Nope. Not this. What you see here is merely the launcher of a static system.

The mobile version will have only 10 missiles and not 20, will have its own radar on the same vehicle, and I assume also a control room in there as well.

[VPZ]

17 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Nope. Not this. What you see here is merely the launcher of a static system.

The mobile version will have only 10 missiles and not 20, will have its own radar on the same vehicle, and I assume also a control room in there as well.

 

Actually, it is mobile.

[mickey_consolidated*]

Quick question does anybody know the exact turret ring diameter on the Merkava 4 just out of curiosity.

[Mighty_Zuk]

48 minutes ago, VPZ said:

 

Actually, it is mobile.

From a couple months ago:

 

Just replace the MAN truck with an Oshkosh.

[VPZ]

10 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

From a couple months ago:

 

Just replace the MAN truck with an Oshkosh.

 

Just an export vehicle.

[Mighty_Zuk]

44 minutes ago, VPZ said:

 

Just an export vehicle.

Export.... to whom?

Most countries who would choose to buy a Rafael IADS would either buy a SpyDer or a David's Sling, but not the Iron Dome, because these are designed from the beginning to be more suitable for a conventional threat rather than artillery and the likes of it.

The US is the only customer so far, and they're going for the static version and an eventual integration with the MML.

 

The only customer that specifically requested a completely mobile unit, is the IDF. Which makes sense because Rafael released this image when the IDF declared its intentions to purchase a mobile Iron Dome dubbed iDome by Rafael.

[VPZ]

1 hour ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Export.... to whom?

Most countries who would choose to buy a Rafael IADS would either buy a SpyDer or a David's Sling, but not the Iron Dome, because these are designed from the beginning to be more suitable for a conventional threat rather than artillery and the likes of it.

The US is the only customer so far, and they're going for the static version and an eventual integration with the MML.

 

The only customer that specifically requested a completely mobile unit, is the IDF. Which makes sense because Rafael released this image when the IDF declared its intentions to purchase a mobile Iron Dome dubbed iDome by Rafael.

 

To anyone. The vehicle on the image is just a concept. It may never be released.

Current version of Iron Dome can be used both as static and as mobile.

[Mighty_Zuk]

1 hour ago, VPZ said:

 

To anyone. The vehicle on the image is just a concept. It may never be released.

Current version of Iron Dome can be used both as static and as mobile.

Just because the components are moved by truck, doesn't make it fully mobile. A truly mobile system is what something along the lines of the Soviet Pantsir, Tor, or M-VSHORAD of the US Army. Something you mount on one truck and can respond within seconds, or at worst a minute or two, to incoming fire. 

A typical Iron Dome battery takes several minutes to set up each component, and is thus suitable for defense of cities, strategic installations, or FOBs, but not mobile troops.

[VPZ]

4 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Just because the components are moved by truck, doesn't make it fully mobile. A truly mobile system is what something along the lines of the Soviet Pantsir, Tor, or M-VSHORAD of the US Army. Something you mount on one truck and can respond within seconds, or at worst a minute or two, to incoming fire. 

A typical Iron Dome battery takes several minutes to set up each component, and is thus suitable for defense of cities, strategic installations, or FOBs, but not mobile troops.

 

There is no big difference between current Dome and the one on the picture - just a primitive radar installed.

[Mighty_Zuk]

1 hour ago, VPZ said:

 

There is no big difference between current Dome and the one on the picture - just a primitive radar installed.

There doesn't have to be any difference. That's the whole point - utilize existing components to create a tactically more suitable solution. 

All cars everywhere around the world are not much different from one another. And yet you see people driving smart cars, SUVs, pickup trucks, minivans, etc etc, because each one has a different need. One may need to just drive small distances and fit in tight parking lots. Another one may need to carry medium sized cargo over long distances. And another one would need to haul a lot of cargo in urban settings. 

Similarly, the IDF needs systems that can defend cities, bases, FOBs, national infrastructure and other static installations, and it also needs a system based on the same principle or components, that would be able to protect moving forces while itself being on the move, or with very short preparation time.

 

I don't think you've ever seen a 'normal' Iron Dome battery. It takes quite a while to set up. Not something ideal in a combat situation where you need to care about 3 things simultaneously:

1. Staying far enough behind to lower the risk of enemy skirmishes.
2. Staying close enough to provide sufficient protection to all elements of the brigade.
3. Being able to deal with a sudden volley, as artillery fire is typically concentrated in short but powerful bursts to inflict damage before troops dig in.

A system as bulky and complex as the Iron Dome is not capable of doing all three at the same time. That necessitates new development, which merely bunches up all the components on one truck.

Of course, we don't see the control room, so that may be part of the HQ unit. 

 

When you have not one radar, but many radars, split between each launcher vehicle, you can, for example, maintain a constant situation of 2 launchers static and defending the brigade while another 2 are driving alongside the forces, and then switching roles every couple minutes. In a typical Iron Dome battery, though, if you move the radar, the entire battery shuts down. 

You may say "Why not just buy 2 radars and that's it?", and to that I will say the MMR (Raz - Rav Zro'i), is too expensive. What you see mounted on these trucks is just small blocks taken from that radar and fitted in a dome structure. It lowers the detection range quite severely, but it still allows full utilization of the Iron Dome's energetic envelope, and significantly lowers costs (imagine it being only 10% of the Raz radar).

[SPARTAN ARMED]

Why idf didnt put a 30mm turret on achzarits ! 

[Mighty_Zuk]

19 minutes ago, SPARTAN ARMED said:

Why idf didnt put a 30mm turret on achzarits ! 

Why don't you give us 50 million dollars so we can do that?

[SPARTAN ARMED]

The american give us if we need !!!!!!! i like to see in idf vehicles like mantis mrap its futuristic.