Collimatrix Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Interesting to see that they've edge-aligned more and more of the service panels on these newer PAK-FA prototypes. If you'd asked me a year and a half ago which is stealthier, PAK-FA or J-20 I would have said J-20, thanks to much better attention to details on these sorts of things. But it looks like PAK-FA is closing the gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Patent for the PAK-FA's inlets. Hmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tied Posted December 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Interesting to see that they've edge-aligned more and more of the service panels on these newer PAK-FA prototypes. If you'd asked me a year and a half ago which is stealthier, PAK-FA or J-20 I would have said J-20, thanks to much better attention to details on these sorts of things. But it looks like PAK-FA is closing the gap. Better missiles to, and backed up by a far more experienced design bureau and command and control center still bothers me that they dont call it the Su-50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Better missiles to, and backed up by a far more experienced design bureau and command and control center still bothers me that they dont call it the Su-50 Debatable; a lot of the experienced people have retired or emigrated. It would be interesting to compare the J-20 development cycle to the PAK-FA's, but that would require knowledge of when studies were started, how much money was spent and when, and what and how many supporting facilities were used. I doubt that data will be out in the open any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tied Posted December 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Debatable; a lot of the experienced people have retired or emigrated. It would be interesting to compare the J-20 development cycle to the PAK-FA's, but that would require knowledge of when studies were started, how much money was spent and when, and what and how many supporting facilities were used. I doubt that data will be out in the open any time soon. People retire, standards dont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 055 What is wrong with paint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 Guesses around the interwebs are that it's some sort of test of the radar absorbing material (RAM). Paint one side, don't paint the other, compare radar returns. Or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belesarius Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Big price cut for India in the works apparently. http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/pm-modi-leaves-for-moscow-russia-offers-new-cheaper-deal-on-sukhoi-fighter-jets/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 A 3D model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Now black stripes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priory_of_Sion Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 How much longer till you get "secret" PAKDA photos Loooser? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 How much longer till you get "secret" PAKDA photos Loooser? You better go away from your home, comrade capitalist. Priory_of_Sion and Tied 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belesarius Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Russias_strategic_bomber_PAK_DA_may_takeoff_earlier_than_expected_999.html Mentions a flying wing design... B-2ski? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 What "ski" means? Rob Ski? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 "Ski" as in the Russian suffix (a la "Russki"). So when something's a Western idea and the Russians adopt it, you could call it somethingski. SuperComrade 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperComrade Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 eg. Tupolev Tu-144 "Concordski" Sturgeon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priory_of_Sion Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 IIRC -ski is more of a Polish language thing than a Russian one. At least for last names. Rokossovsky, Pilsudski, Jaruzelski, etc. Because all Slavic countries are the same, Americans just add -ski to all things Russian, Polish, Slovakian, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Belesarius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm_kruger Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 rip the hopes and dreams of Shukoihttp://www.janes.com/article/58166/singapore-airshow-2016-analysis-pak-fa-s-asian-export-hopes-stymied-by-lack-of-fifth-generation-qualities Previously, Russian defence think-tanks had been projecting that the T-50 would be purchased by Asian nations that were already operating some model of the Sukhoi Su-27/30 'Flanker'-series. This would include Indonesia, Malaysia, and Vietnam. China, another major operator of Sukhoi aircraft is developing its own next-generation aircraft in the Chengdu J-20 and Shenyang FC-31.Russian specialists familiar with the T-50 programme state that the aircraft will have trouble gaining traction in the Asian market as the on-board systems offer very little fifth-generation technologies despite what is projected to be a considerably higher price tag than the latest Su-35 'Flanker-E', ordered by China and Indonesia. http://mil.today/2016/Economy2/ Least of all, the cost reduction will affect development and procurement of weapons for Strategic Missile Force and nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines. At the same time, development programs of a mobile railway-based missile system or fifth-generation strategic bombers can be suspended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 rip the hopes and dreams of Shukoi http://www.janes.com/article/58166/singapore-airshow-2016-analysis-pak-fa-s-asian-export-hopes-stymied-by-lack-of-fifth-generation-qualities That article makes me very sad I didn't follow up trying to get a job writing for Jane's. It's clearly not that hard. Russian industry has consistently referred to the Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA as a fifth-generation aircraft, but a careful look at the programme reveals that this is an 'in-name-only' designation. What qualifies a fighter aircraft as being a next-generation design is more than just having a stealthy-looking shape, said Lockheed Martin representatives. That's some pretty wicked spin there. Sure, it's possible to have an angular pseudo-stealth mockup, like say the Q-313: And everyone would laugh at you. But the shape of the aircraft is what causes it to be stealthy in the first place. The magical paint and other radar absorbent materials (RAM) are a decidedly secondary factor. The best RAM, from everything I've seen on publicly available sources, reduces radar cross section by about an order of magnitude. That sounds really good, but it's not. The relationship between radar cross section and detection range is a fourth power function. If you want to halve the detection range of an aircraft vs. a given radar you need to reduce its radar cross section by a factor of sixteen. So, if you took a conventionally designed aircraft and slathered RAM over every loving surface of the thing, ignoring the fact that RAM is heavy, not generally very strong, not generally very heat resistant, and opaque to both visible light and radio waves and would blind the pilot and the radar, the stealth performance would still be drastically worse than a properly designed low observable design. The idea that the T-50 is some sort of Potemkin stealth fighter is ridiculous. The aircraft clearly has planform alignment, horizontal stabilizers in line with the wings, sawtooth edges on the radome and some of the service panels, an internal weapons bay, and curved air intakes with some sort of blockers. All of those features are substantial aerodynamic compromises, there would be no reason to have them unless the aircraft were actually stealthy. There's no reason to think that Sukhoi doesn't understand how to make those things work either; Yakovlev clearly understood them in the 1980s, and Sukhoi merged with Yakovlev in 2006. Both the T-50's NIIP Irbis radar and the NPO Saturn 117S engine that are two of the major subsystems of the T-50 are the same as those installed in the Su-35. Also, a number of the avionics on-board the T-50 and Su-35 are common. Those that will be part of the production-configuration of the T-50 will more likely than not be only incremental or evolutionary improvements over their analogues on-board the Su-35, say the same specialists. That's a hatchet job and the author should know better. Sukhoi has said from day 1 that the 117S engines are a temporary expedient until the izd. 30 is available. This is hardly unprecedented course of action, the TF-30 in the F-14A was also intended as a stop-gap. Unless the Russian economy tanks so hard and stays tanked so hard for the next several years that they just can't bear to afford the new engines (like what happened with the F-14A), then PAK-FA will be getting better engines. As for the radar being the same as the SU-35, what's the matter with that? It's an AESA radar, and at least on paper it's perfectly competitive. Also, if old engines in prototypes are a huge turn off, then nobody would be interested in J-20 or J-31, as those are powered by the same engines as the SU-27 and MiG-29, respectively. Belesarius and SuperComrade 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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