Moscow officials license referendum to restore monument to KGB founder Dzerzhinsky

[Tied]

Yes

 

i personally support it, by finding the KGB Felix Dzerzhinsky greatly improved state scurrility both inside the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and abroad (their jurisdiction was only domestic, but they kept the internationally influential people safe at night)

 

a dedicated defender of both the Revolution and all the Soviet peoples

 

 

what do you think of this news?

[Meplat]

 Good or bad, removing or defacing historical monuments does not change history.

It just displays people's attempts to muddy the waters.

[Priory_of_Sion]

Bill Donovan's statue hasn't been defaced. I'd say the CIA has probably screwed up intl politics worse than the KGB did.

[Collimatrix]

Bill Donovan's statue hasn't been defaced. I'd say the CIA has probably screwed up intl politics worse than the KGB did.

 

 

That's because capitalism is stronger than socialism.

 

As an American, I don't have warm and fuzzy feelings about the KGB.  To Americans, the KGB were the villains funding many a terrorist group, and trying to install tyrannical dictators in countries that already had perfectly good tyrannical dictatorships.  Certainly the CIA also funded terrorism, although they mostly left that to the State Department.

 

But the time for American views to become popular in Russia is over.  Russians will not, by and large, take an objective look at their miserable history and decide that they have been ruled by a series of unstable, alcoholic dickbags for the past... three hundred years, give or take, and try something more American.  There was a time when such sentiments were popular, and where such a thing was possible.  The American government blew it.

 

This should come as no surprise; the American government has been developing incompetence to a high art form since the mid 1970s.  The US only won the Cold War because of capitalism.  Capitalism is stronger than socialism; it was the same lesson learned from the American Civil War.  Benjamin Franklin had pointed out that slavery made no economic sense way back in 1751, to which Southerners retorted that slavery was a form of paternalist socialism, to which the North retorted by burning down their cities because they had a crushing advantage in industrialization.

 

The American god is a severe, faithless edifice of pure commerce.  He is not like Moloch, who can be quieted by sacrifice.  The American God becomes hungrier the more you feed him.  He is of transcontinental railroads, broken contracts, sixty hour work weeks and sexless hydrogen.  The American God is unstoppable and all who do not worship him will die.  All who worship him will also die.  But he will lead his followers to victory over the faithless, for his brutality is both sufficient and efficient.

 

At some point, Americans lost faith in their god.  They thought that putting their faith away would make them kinder, but it only made them stupid.  By the mid 1970s they were noticeably weaker than they had been a generation ago, and by the early 1990s they were shamelessly coasting on past glory.  Fat Elvis.  But they had a huge pile of skulls to coast on, so they managed to win the Cold War by default.

 

But by then, Americans had forgotten how to win any sort of war, or any sort of peace.  They didn't try to re-start the Cold War; it just sort of happened because nobody was trying anymore.  Nobody was trying to smooth things over when NATO bombed Serbia and the Russians weren't even kept in the loop.  Nobody was there to accept Putin's offers of international solidarity after 9/11.  Nobody was watching the Harvard advisers who helped rape and pillage the Russian industrial base.  Nobody cared that the Georgian government was filled with dangerous yahoos who would start WWIII if they thought it sounded nice because the Georgian lobbyists in DC were slick and well-funded.  Americans did pay attention to some punk rock band that wasn't even that good that desecrated a church and was sensibly thrown in prison because church desecration is a black metal thing and not a punk thing.

 

So it's too late for Americans to have opinions about the Soviet Union.  Nobody in Russia is listening.

[FaustianQ]

Colli, I think your mixing the gods of Liberal Industrialization and Commerce. Russia in the 90s experience American Commerce, and fucking hated it. Commerce will devour everything if it means producing currency, Industrialization requires only that you serve into death the great purpose of construction. Do not mistake both's undying hunger as coming from similar sources and serving similar means.

 

Like you said, Moloch is a shitty god, Vulcan is clearly superior.

[Tied]

That's because capitalism is stronger than socialism.

 

As an American, I don't have warm and fuzzy feelings about the KGB.  To Americans, the KGB were the villains funding many a terrorist group, and trying to install tyrannical dictators in countries that already had perfectly good tyrannical dictatorships.  Certainly the CIA also funded terrorism, although they mostly left that to the State Department.

 

But the time for American views to become popular in Russia is over.  Russians will not, by and large, take an objective look at their miserable history and decide that they have been ruled by a series of unstable, alcoholic dickbags for the past... three hundred years, give or take, and try something more American.  There was a time when such sentiments were popular, and where such a thing was possible.  The American government blew it.

 

This should come as no surprise; the American government has been developing incompetence to a high art form since the mid 1970s.  The US only won the Cold War because of capitalism.  Capitalism is stronger than socialism; it was the same lesson learned from the American Civil War.  Benjamin Franklin had pointed out that slavery made no economic sense way back in 1751, to which Southerners retorted that slavery was a form of paternalist socialism, to which the North retorted by burning down their cities because they had a crushing advantage in industrialization.

 

The American god is a severe, faithless edifice of pure commerce.  He is not like Moloch, who can be quieted by sacrifice.  The American God becomes hungrier the more you feed him.  He is of transcontinental railroads, broken contracts, sixty hour work weeks and sexless hydrogen.  The American God is unstoppable and all who do not worship him will die.  All who worship him will also die.  But he will lead his followers to victory over the faithless, for his brutality is both sufficient and efficient.

 

At some point, Americans lost faith in their god.  They thought that putting their faith away would make them kinder, but it only made them stupid.  By the mid 1970s they were noticeably weaker than they had been a generation ago, and by the early 1990s they were shamelessly coasting on past glory.  Fat Elvis.  But they had a huge pile of skulls to coast on, so they managed to win the Cold War by default.

 

But by then, Americans had forgotten how to win any sort of war, or any sort of peace.  They didn't try to re-start the Cold War; it just sort of happened because nobody was trying anymore.  Nobody was trying to smooth things over when NATO bombed Serbia and the Russians weren't even kept in the loop.  Nobody was there to accept Putin's offers of international solidarity after 9/11.  Nobody was watching the Harvard advisers who helped rape and pillage the Russian industrial base.  Nobody cared that the Georgian government was filled with dangerous yahoos who would start WWIII if they thought it sounded nice because the Georgian lobbyists in DC were slick and well-funded.  Americans did pay attention to some punk rock band that wasn't even that good that desecrated a church and was sensibly thrown in prison because church desecration is a black metal thing and not a punk thing.

 

So it's too late for Americans to have opinions about the Soviet Union.  Nobody in Russia is listening.

 

I will say it before and i will say it again

 

the weekness and inepitude of parts of the Russian and Fraternal Eastern European people lost the cold war

 

the generation that broke down the Berlin wall was not nealy as strong as the generation who bit the bullet and laid the concrete. Knowing that they couldnt just run away from their problems and that their own country brought this on themselves.

 

The generation who stood with that drunken shill of a man known as Yeltsin was not nearly as strong as the generation who managed to turn a broken a bleed nation, who had 1/16 of its population in the grave, another 1/10 of it in the hopsital, and another 1/8 of it hundreds of kilometers west or east of thier original homes and somehow, managed to turn their nation into a nuclear power.

 

Our children lacked the patience of their fathers, who could live in a shack for their entire life, pick up a rifle almost as old as them, and beat what seemed at the time as the only unbeatable land army in Europe.

 

and their children were more than willing to burn down a apartment block that toke 8 years to build, or a tank factory that had kept them safe from the terrors of the west since the 40s, for a pair of Levis' from china.

 

What patience did it take to line the streets, kicking and screaming for more freedoms huh?

 

what did those kids build?

 

what nations did they forge?

 

what battles did they win?

 

which army's did they maintain?

 

Some of us didnt get to parade around like idiots in Moscow demanding change, some of us had to spend our youth fixing pontoon bridges in east Germany or watching a particular bit of forest in Czechoslovakia for our youth

 

Some of us had to spend countless nights studying, to grow up to harness the power the atom, only to see their hard work signed away for destruction at appeaest treaties

 

some of us had to spend countless days toiling in the fields of Ukraine only to grow old enough to see their goverment sell away generations of their family's work to the EU, just im time for their penson's to be cut and to starve to death.

 

the will of the weak cut down the destiny's of the willing and patient

[EnsignExpendable]

That's because capitalism is stronger than socialism.

 

As an American, I don't have warm and fuzzy feelings about the KGB.  To Americans, the KGB were the villains funding many a terrorist group, and trying to install tyrannical dictators in countries that already had perfectly good tyrannical dictatorships.  Certainly the CIA also funded terrorism, although they mostly left that to the State Department.

 

Stop watching James Bond movies. The jurisdiction of the KGB was entirely internal.

[Tied]

my referring to their services abroad meant that the were able to keep the people who actually did make those decisions safe

 

im sorry if i gave the impression that they were some type of communist global conspiracy 

 

i apologize to Peter Samsonov, the former members of the ministry of state security, and to anyone who might of gotten the wrong impression due to my piss-poor writing skills

 

I will do better, this i promise. 

[Collimatrix]

Stop watching James Bond movies. The jurisdiction of the KGB was entirely internal.

 

I did not know that.  So why did defectors and professional intelligence people in the US refer to nefarious KGB activities worldwide?  Was "KGB" simply metonymy for the entire Soviet intelligence apparatus?

[Tied]

I did not know that.  So why did defectors and professional intelligence people in the US refer to nefarious KGB activities worldwide?  Was "KGB" simply metonymy for the entire Soviet intelligence apparatus?

 

becuase its a convient yet still inaccurate name

 

kinda like how i call the m113 a gavin

 

its just rolls off the tongue like gavins roll into the scrap yards 

[FaustianQ]

becuase its a convient yet still inaccurate name

 

kinda like how i call the m113 a gavin

 

its just rolls off the tongue like gavins roll into the scrap yards 

 

I think you're confused, Gavins fly

[Meplat]

I think you're confused, Gavins fly

God that is just a hideous kitbash.. I wonder how many OV-10 kits died for that monstrosity.

[Tied]

RIP the shilka battery who was targeting the aerogavin

 

who apon seeing it, died of of convulsive laughter