Marder I replacement begins service.

[Belesarius]

http://www.janes.com/article/52476/german-army-receives-first-production-standard-puma-aifv

 

30mm with airburst capability, and supposedly better mine protection than a Leo 2.

 

[Walter_Sobchak]

When I first read the headline I thought of the WW2 era Marder 1.  

[LoooSeR]

Photos from inside of Pumas showed 2 old monitors that i expected to see in Soviet mbts. At least they got a heavy IFV, with pretty good protection (even roof have thick armor modules).

[Tied]

Photos from inside of Pumas showed 2 old monitors that i expected to see in Soviet mbts. At least they got a heavy IFV, with pretty good protection (even roof have thick armor modules).

 

the last time Germany tried to produce a well-armored IFV they ended up with something that costs more than a T-72 to transport 10 conscripts with Battle rifles onto the battlefield 

 

 

#inventedmodernwarfare

[LoooSeR]

Photos from inside of Pumas showed 2 old monitors that i expected to see in Soviet mbts. At least they got a heavy IFV, with pretty good protection (even roof have thick armor modules).

 

 

Those 2 monitors are from 1980s 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This 2-level panoramic sight... looks strange.

 

This vehicle weights like T-72B (around 44 tons), but offers protection only against 30 mm autocannons in frontal proection and even less at sides. How?

[Walter_Sobchak]

The power of German engineering I suppose.  

[LoooSeR]

The power of German engineering I suppose.  

 

I think latest M2 Bradley modifications offer similar level of protection but they are more than ~10 tons lighter.

[Tied]

 

Those 2 monitors are from 1980s 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This 2-level panoramic sight... looks strange.

 

This vehicle weights like T-72B (around 44 tons), but offers protection only against 30 mm autocannons in frontal proection and even less at sides. How?

The Marder was gonna weigh just as mutch, saner minds prevailed and the Puma was adotped

 

To be fair im pretty sure when people design modern IFV's they are less concerned with some Russian 30mm's as they are with the RPG-7

 

i would be interesting to see how this fairs against such weapons

 

I think latest M2 Bradley modifications offer similar level of protection but they are more than ~10 tons lighter.

 

Not to mention the Bradley can also has TOWs stuffed into it. i wonder how much the weight will change when the unmanned turrents are introduced 

[LoooSeR]

It depends on turret design, armor and weapon. In case of Puma i can heard that they had better designs, but they left 'old' version because of budget.

I think Puma have ERA, although russian sources are unreliable about Puma armor (russian wehraboos). There is official german information from Army about Puma, is anybody here capable of translating it?

[Walter_Sobchak]

Modern vehicles keep getting uglier.  That thing is hideous.  I much prefer studying WW2 era stuff.  Say what you will about a Panther tank, at least it looked awesome.  

[SuperComrade]

If the information is in German, I might be able to make out some of the stuff

[Sturgeon]

As antiquated requirements for IFVs remain in the books but additional requirements for mine resistance and old fashioned capability grow, you'll see IFVs become these huge bloated things that make MBTs look modest in comparison.

Eventually, one of the major powers will admit to themselves that IFVs are a dumb idea and release a suite of much more diverse and individually capable vehicles. And it'll probably be China.

[Tied]

As antiquated requirements for IFVs remain in the books but additional requirements for mine resistance and old fashioned capability grow, you'll see IFVs become these huge bloated things that make MBTs look modest in comparison.

Eventually, one of the major powers will admit to themselves that IFVs are a dumb idea and release a suite of much more diverse and individually capable vehicles. And it'll probably be China.

 

 

thats impossible sturgeon, since the T-14 already weighs so little Russia has plently of breathing space

[LoooSeR]

T-14 and T-15 combination is interesting. We have to look at how it works, but that is question of years.

[Tied]

Like i said, IFVs should mainly be concerned with stopping Infantry carried AT weapons, which they would probably encounter more than mines even in modern conflicts 

 

Russian IFVs usually have a pretty good combo of protection without insane weight, specially with the new Aramta based ones 

[LoooSeR]

Russian IFVs have pretty bad protection but "not bad"/good firepower on top of great overal mobility. T-15 is very different from previous IFVs, thats why there are people who hate it. 

[Tied]

Russian IFVs have pretty bad protection but "not bad"/good firepower on top of great overal mobility. T-15 is very different from previous IFVs, thats why there are people who hate it. 

 

For their time, they had pretty good armor compared to their counterparts

 

why would anyone hate the T-15? Its cost? 

 

and dont forgot about this bad boy 

[LoooSeR]

[Priory_of_Sion]

As stated before this thing is hideous.

Since Germany isn't likely to be involved in a MidEast war with IEDs I don't understand why they went all out with the mine protection.

[Tied]

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEXPORT! 

 

Its not like there are Leopard 2s showing up at arms expo's for the Kraut's to measure there dicks

 

Hell, i would be willing to say there is some proof out there for new AFV devopment only being feasible because of export Since most Europeans nations just aren't going for each other's throats like they used to

[Priory_of_Sion]

Basically. You might as well ask every buyer nation "whatcha want in an IFV?" Than just designing a vehicle for Germany that is built to fight in Iraq where Germany will likely never fight and hoping for exports

[Tied]

The Germans will take what they can get, being there military outside of the handful of Leopard 2s they can get to start for HATO dick measuring YouTube compilations they are a hollow shell of a military

 

Hell, the FDR's army wasnt even that nice compared to the NVA, they definitively had a worse air force than the east Germans