Overrated Allied Weaponry in World War II

[Tied]

For those more conversant with Russian-language sources than I am, how much of a psychological impression did the big cats make on the Soviets?  I have heard that after Kursk many of the newspapers announced that "The Tigers are Burning!" and a few other stories that would seem to indicate that the tiger definitely got the Soviets' attention despite not being a particularly effective weapon overall.

 

which is why it toke them a year to relies it existed

 

Tiger was just a term as panzer was a term, it sounds impressive to say they are defeated 

[EnsignExpendable]

which is why it toke them a year to relies it existed

 

Tiger was just a term as panzer was a term, it sounds impressive to say they are defeated 

 

What? The Red Army was aware of the Tiger and actually had one in January of 1943. 

 

Also the Tiger was not a generic term for German tank at all, Tigers were specifically identified and considered a much more prestigious target than a Panther.

[Tied]

What? The Red Army was aware of the Tiger and actually had one in January of 1943. 

 

Also the Tiger was not a generic term for German tank at all, Tigers were specifically identified and considered a much more prestigious target than a Panther.

 

I should of said slogan

 

 

My bad, i seem to recal from somewhere that the red army wasnt very phased by the Tiger at all, i might be thinking of the western allies though 

[CrashbotUS]

One anecdotal statement from my Did about German armor, "we blew them up and continued blowing them up all the way into Germany". 

Hell of a guy he was. 

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

I'm going to have to defend the P-51 here.  Is the performance all that?  No; the P-47M/N and a number of other Allied fighters could out-fly it.

 

However, it could run down anything the Axis had in the skies save very rare opponents like ME-262s, KI-84s and TA-152s.

 

Also, it was much cheaper than any Allied design that was greatly superior.  Also, it had insanely long legs for a fighter of its cost.

 

A handful of fighters, Axis and Allied were better individually, but as a long-range implement of strategic air superiority, it was good enough and, more importantly, numerous enough to kill the last remaining Axis air power.

 

It's a solid energy fighter, and flown right it was hard to beat, but it was also fragile and it engine needed to be replaced around 500 hours. It was also facing a pretty broken Germany. It was late to the show, and the P-38 should have been doing a better job, but for some reason they couldn't figure it out in england. 

 

It has a rep for being a super duper, best at everything, saved the day, superplane that nothing could touch, and that's total BS.  So that's what it the over rated part. 

 

It was still much better than any of the German prop jobs. 

[Tied]

One anecdotal statement from my Did about German armor, "we blew them up and continued blowing them up all the way into Germany". 

Hell of a guy he was. 

Mine was a pencil pushing in the Azeri SSR

 

I appreciate and recongnize that every effort was needed, but i feel i missed out on a lot of cool stories 

[Sturgeon]

It's a solid energy fighter, and flown right it was hard to beat, but it was also fragile and it engine needed to be replaced around 500 hours. It was also facing a pretty broken Germany. It was late to the show, and the P-38 should have been doing a better job, but for some reason they couldn't figure it out in england. 

 

It has a rep for being a super duper, best at everything, saved the day, superplane that nothing could touch, and that's total BS.  So that's what it the over rated part. 

 

It was still much better than any of the German prop jobs. 

 

The P-38 is my pick for most underrated fighter of the war.

But then I'm a LockMart shill.

[Tied]

The P-38 is my pick for most underrated fighter of the war.

But then I'm a LockMart shill.

 

Every non il-2 Soviet aircraft is my pick for most underrated 

[Walter_Sobchak]

Does the B-17 flying fortress count as over-rated?

[Priory_of_Sion]

Does the B-17 flying fortress count as over-rated?

I already implied it earlier. I think it is overrated, especially its impact on the war.

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

The P-38 is my pick for most underrated fighter of the war.

But then I'm a LockMart shill.

 

Yes, since we have the ETO got all the good press.  The P-38 did amazing things in the Pacific, and the MTO, even the CBO, but no when flying for the 8th. 

 

Did you know Charles Lindbergh flew with some of the top aces of the Pacific and got a kill in the P-38?

[Tied]

I already implied it earlier. I think it is overrated, especially its impact on the war.

 

a weapons systems impact on the war shouldnt invalidate the weapon system itself

 

The T-44 was arguably the best tank built during the second world war, but had fuck all to do with winning the war 

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

Does the B-17 flying fortress count as over-rated?

 

 

They didn't want it in the Pacific, range to short, payload to small. 

[Sturgeon]

B-24 was better in almost every way.

[Sturgeon]

a weapons systems impact on the war shouldnt invalidate the weapon system itself

 

The T-44 was arguably the best tank built during the second world war, but had fuck all to do with winning the war 

 

I agree that the T-44 is underrated. It's a really great tank that was just poorly synchronized with the relevant war of the period. If WWII had started in 1944 instead of 1941, the T-44 would have been the most important tank of the Eastern Front.

[Collimatrix]

It's a solid energy fighter, and flown right it was hard to beat, but it was also fragile and it engine needed to be replaced around 500 hours. It was also facing a pretty broken Germany. It was late to the show, and the P-38 should have been doing a better job, but for some reason they couldn't figure it out in england. 

 

It has a rep for being a super duper, best at everything, saved the day, superplane that nothing could touch, and that's total BS.  So that's what it the over rated part. 

 

It was still much better than any of the German prop jobs. 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that any piston engine that had the nutso power densities of late WWII aero engines would need frequent overhaul and maintenance.  Pistons just aren't happy reciprocating that quickly.  Hell, one of the reasons jets got popular so quickly is because they required less maintenance, and the early jets had absolutely awful engine lifespans.

 

You'll note that every tank with an aeroderivative engine had it massively downrated to promote longer maintenance intervals and better lifespan.

[Zinegata]

B-24 was better in almost every way.

 

Yeah B-17 wankers like to point out various flaws of the Liberator but at the end of the day the B-24 had a higher top speed which is the most important stat for a bomber's survival.

 

But no, the Mighty Eighth continues to peddles its mythology.

[Toxn]

I personally find it quite amazing to step back and go "you know, one side of this massive conflict was able to simultaneously prosecute a land war and naval/land war on the other side of the world, land and supply multiple armies based entirely overseas, gain almost total naval domination over two oceans, gain air dominance over every theatre it fought in and develop half a dozen wonder weapons - including an actually war-winning one. And all without sacrificing the home front to any great degree. Even basic equipment and supply quality for the soldiers it had scattered all over the world never dropped in quality."

 

At which point you realise just how dominant the US was during this conflict - nobody even came close. I think even some bizarro-world matchup where the UK, USSR, Japan and Nazi Germany all have teamed up against the US would still have ended with them getting curb stomped.

[Sturgeon]

One could argue that the US was not the most influential force in the war. None can argue with any authority that the US was not the most significant power of the war.

If the US had fought a total war the likes of which Russia actually did, the whole world would have bent the knee, or burned.

[Toxn]

One could argue that the US was not the most influential force in the war. None can argue with any authority that the US was not the most significant power of the war.

If the US had fought a total war the likes of which Russia actually did, the whole world would have bent the knee, or burned.

As if we didn't do so anyway  .

 

But yeah - the US was overwhelming. It's interesting that smart people had been seeing this coming since at least the turn of the century, with the first world war merely confirming that the world's biggest empire (the UK) was now a dependent player to the US. This was also some of the impetous behind German thinking which culminated in the Nazis - the idea that the only way to beat the island continent was to conquer your way into autarchy.

[Sturgeon]

As if we didn't do so anyway  .

 

But yeah - the US was overwhelming. It's interesting that smart people had been seeing this coming since at least the turn of the century, with the first world war merely confirming that the world's biggest empire (the UK) was now a dependent player to the US. This was also some of the impetous behind German thinking which culminated in the Nazis - the idea that the only way to beat the island continent was to conquer your way into autarchy.

 

Hmmm, I would argue that the US went easy on the rest of the world. Look at our own Civil War. The South has still not recovered fully, 150 years later. While Germany and Japan had both recovered by the 1980s.

[Toxn]

Hmmm, I would argue that the US went easy on the rest of the world. Look at our own Civil War. The South has still not recovered fully, 150 years later. While Germany and Japan had both recovered by the 1980s.

I dunno - something weird happened to them after the US rebuilt. I submit German and Japanese porn as proof of the psychological devestation of getting Americanised.

 

But, yeah - the US hasn't objectively been the worst empire to toil under, because in being an autarchic island-continent there aren't any things it needs from us. All it really wants are customers, converts and compliments - the rest is meddling for meddling's sake.

[Tied]

I personally find it quite amazing to step back and go "you know, one side of this massive conflict was able to simultaneously prosecute a land war and naval/land war on the other side of the world, land and supply multiple armies based entirely overseas, gain almost total naval domination over two oceans, gain air dominance over every theatre it fought in and develop half a dozen wonder weapons - including an actually war-winning one. And all without sacrificing the home front to any great degree. Even basic equipment and supply quality for the soldiers it had scattered all over the world never dropped in quality."

At which point you realise just how dominant the US was during this conflict - nobody even came close. I think even some bizarro-world matchup where the UK, USSR, Japan and Nazi Germany all have teamed up against the US would still have ended with them getting curb stomped.

And the fact that the Soviet Union was able to do the same (arguably better) 30 years after having its population and industry devastated really pays justice to the strength of the Soviet people's

It's like an older, slower boxxer out hitting his young competition for several rounds after being stabbed the the previous night before suffering at heart attack at the end of the match

[Toxn]

And the fact that the Soviet Union was able to do the same (arguably better) 30 years after having its population and industry devastated really pays justice to the strength of the Soviet people's

It's like an older, slower boxxer out hitting his young competition for several rounds after being stabbed the the previous night before suffering at heart attack at the end of the match

With all respect to the USSR, it was a continental power. And I think the leadership was more than smart enough to realise this.

Essentially, my view of the cold war is of a long defensive battle for the USSR - one which was played with a greater-than-usual level of care and introspection due to the fact that neither side could directly attack each other. In the end, the US won by a route that is almost unheard-of in history (direct capitulation without a shot fired on home soil). This is both a testament to the staying power of both sides, and to the limitations imposed by nuclear weapons.

 

I should also note that, once the USSR fell, the US almost immediately began to act more like a proper empire than the more relaxed picture I painted of it above.

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

I'm pretty sure that any piston engine that had the nutso power densities of late WWII aero engines would need frequent overhaul and maintenance.  Pistons just aren't happy reciprocating that quickly.  Hell, one of the reasons jets got popular so quickly is because they required less maintenance, and the early jets had absolutely awful engine lifespans.

 

You'll note that every tank with an aeroderivative engine had it massively downrated to promote longer maintenance intervals and better lifespan.

 

Other than the R975 the military version put out more HP than the civy version.

 

And I could be remembering wrong, but I pretty sure the V1710 by mid war was getting twice that, the R2800 was good for at least double as well. 

 

I'm going to have to confirm this when I get home from work now. 

 

The thing that really made the merlin great was it supercharger on the later versions.