The Small Arms Thread, Part 8: 2018; ICSR to be replaced by US Army with interim 15mm Revolver Cannon.

[Scolopax]

Did some searching on the matter. It's a multi-national African Standby Force.  Doesn't entirely answer where the guns are coming from though.

[Khand-e]

Anyway, to explain why I recommended the CZ-75 P-01 and P-07 as potential alternatives earlier, I'll explain now.

 

Let's go back before the Glock existed and basically shitfucked every gun makers dreams beyond belief to the point everyone wanted to be them (or, at least pistol designers), back before these times, if you asked pretty much any expert or enthusiast what the best double stack pistol on the market was, and then factor that in even harder when you ask what the best one for what you get money to quality/performance/feature wise is, basically all of them would tell you the CZ-75, and it would be pretty damn difficult to argue otherwise, let's take a look at what it gave you (and still does) at the time.

 

-Very reasonable price

 

-Amazing ergonomics that fit a variety of hand sizes

 

-Speaking of ergonomics, most of the time they have the ability to change the safety/decocker and magazine release from right to left handed quite easily.

 

-An impressive 16 round magazine capacity (even today that's still decent, most 9mm full sized striker fired designs are 17, the latest CZ-75 P-09 full size is a whopping 19.)

 

-A really crisp trigger with little travel and around a 4 1/2 lb pull weight on SA. This is one area ill say it will beat a Glock out on if you want a range gun as part of the package, there's a very good reason a vast majority of race guns are either heavily modded CZ-75s or 1911A1s.

 

-They can take abuse quite well, I mean, you shouldn't abuse a gun, but if you really had to.....

 

-While it's bore axis to me seems worse then a Glock or quite a few striker fired designs, It's quite good compared to most hammer fired ones.

 

-Well balanced/centered design that gives a feel of lower recoil and very good control on follow up shots in my experience with little muzzle climb.

 

-Decent aftermarket options.

 

-------

 

Now then, the P-01 is basically a design improved version of the older CZ 75 Compact, and while it's MSRP is around $600, It's street price usually in the $500-$550 range, It has a magazine capacity of 14 rounds and they did things like further improve the trigger and give it an underbarrel accessory rail that like fucking every pistol has these days (I personally very rarely use an under rail on a pistol, but it's there if you want it I guess...) memory serve me, the P-01 uses a decocker as opposed to a safety or combo safety/decocker, which will work just fine if you obey basic safety rules. and, as said before, the P-01 has a mostly aircraft grade aluminum frame for those with fears of plastic.

 

However, if you don't have fears of plastic, then you can look at the even more recent P-07, which is the compact version of the P-09, this uses a Polymer lower and a different trigger group altogether with less parts, I actually like it better, but some prefer the older trigger style, maybe try both out and decide, one thing that may appeal to you is that these have an MSRP of around $500, with, once again, a lower street price and carry 1 more round in the magazine at 15 which is the same as a Glock 19 as far as compact sized pistols go. One note is they have a new slide finish that's nitrated if my memory is correct, this is done for corrosion and wear resistance. Usually you have a choice for a safety or decocker with the P-07.

 

------

 

 

 

NOW, all that being said, that's IF you're really set on a Hammer fired/Design with Safety/Decocker/Metal Framed setup (well, at least in the P-01's case for the last one), however, if you don't have any objections to a striker fired design, well, good news, pretty much every manufacturer and their mom makes a Glock clone these days (I can literally name at least 10 off the top of my head.) and that's for a reason, contrary to dipshits like braindead SIG fanboys who constantly shit talk the design, there's a damn good reason everyone wants to copy it, and that's because I'll second Sturgeon here, the Glock may be "boring" but goddamn it does damn near everything right, They're very well priced, better then almost all their copies in that regard, and yet still no matter how hard other manufacturers try, no one can beat them at their own game.

 

They have tank like durability and reliability, have good-great accuracy, invincible magazines (they're also rather cheap if you want more, you get 3 when you buy one new which is more then alot of manufacturers), probably the best stock finish to the slide and barrel of any pistol on the market that's very wear and corrosion resistant, very good bore axis heights, are usually the best in the magazine capacity department as far as striker fired designs go for any given size and caliber, the trigger, while not incredible stock, is still consistent and decent and, it's hard to describe this without using one before, but when you first use a striker fired design, all your follow up shots feel so much more consistent and natural, they're lighter then all metal designs obviously, the list just goes on.

 

Now, their clones have improved over the years and are reasonably competitive, however, Glocks generally just overall feel the best when compared to their rightful peers, and one massive edge people often fail to talk about is Glocks have a fucking shitton of both 1st party and aftermarket accessories that other makers just don't, Honestly I'd say the only pistol models that have more or rival them are 1911A1 clones and "maybe" CZ-75s  (They're popular race guns, so they get a bit of love.) you can change so many things so easily as there's alot of aftermarket part makers for basically every aspect of the gun can be tuned to your liking. Also, yes, 4th gen Glocks do have the ever so common accessory under rail mount.

 

The last I'd say would be the Steyr M9-A1 as I've owned one of these before and, these are legitmately underrated, they're cheap as fuck, have good stock sights (a rarity) very good ergos.....Actually, you know what, just go watch Alex C's video on it, he explains it really well anyway, It's the last gun featured on his "top 5 underrated guns" list video.

 

So yeah, final verdict.

 

Either CZ P-01/P-07 or seconding Sturgeon on the Glock 19 depending on your choice of features, though I should also mention the Glock 26 is an option if you want a 9x19mm subcompact pistol that's not slimline sized, with the Steyr M9-A1 being a possible dark horse to try out if you can find one. (they're kind of rare honestly but cheap still, the compact and sub compact models in 9mm are known as the C9-A1 and S9-A1 btw.)

[Belesarius]

 

Jordanian J-9 Sniper rifle, unveiled at SOFX 2016, by JADARA.

 

"Chambered for the .338 Lapua Magnum cartridge, the J-9 is a bolt-action rifle that weighs 6.2 kg. JADARA says it has a muzzle velocity of up to 925 m/s and a range of 1,500 m. It is fed by either a five- or 10-round detachable box magazine."

[Sturgeon]

Classic Firearms just got in a final batch of M39 Mosins, get 'em while they're hot, fellas.

[Sturgeon]

"Without all of the disadvantages of tiny magazines"?

Like what, small size, less weight, reduced awkwardness... Gimme a break! Ulric, your former company's marketing is ridiculous.

[Belesarius]

"Without all of the disadvantages of tiny magazines"?

Like what, small size, less weight, reduced awkwardness... Gimme a break! Ulric, your former company's marketing is ridiculous.

Ooooh, so that's who he worked for.

So many conversations make so much more sense now...

[Sturgeon]

Ooooh, so that's who he worked for.

So many conversations make so much more sense now...

 

"Worked for" is an interesting way to put "was singularly responsible for their 1 product".

Although I thought this was public knowledge. If Ulric wants me to be hush hush about it, I may have to 1984 this thread...

[Collimatrix]

You'll quickly give into the joy of censorship.  Just let it happen.

[ApplesauceBandit]

I'll respond to the pistol stuff tomorrow when I have a functioning brain, but I figure I may as well ask about a surplus rifle now, seeing what just got posted.

I was originally planning on an SKS since ammo is cheap, I like the looks, there's lots of info out there on them and I was wanting a semi auto surplus rifle. Getting an SKS would be cheaper than some sort of AK, and I'd like to learn how to use a stripper clip.

However, I know I would like some surplus bolt as well, and a fancy Finn Mosin seens like it could also be a good investment.

There's that one French rifle someone here was praising that I liked too, until I saw the ammo costs.

[Sturgeon]

Finn Mosins are an excellent choice, but A.) Get one now, no RIGHT now, before the cheap ones dry up, and B.) they will ruin you for Mosins forever. Pluses are, besides them being excellent rifles, they have available both cheap surplus ammo and match ammo.

The MAS 36 is an excellent rifle with available (if not terribly cheap) ammunition. It's got its own quirks (no safety, have to buy a rear sight leaf to adjust for windage), but they are fantastically fun shooters.

I have never been terribly taken with the SKS, although it's decent semiauto. Like most early semiautos, they have problems with... Working.

A CMP M1 Garand would be another good milsurp, and qualifying for that program also lets you buy delicious cheap .30-06 surplus. It seems daunting to join the CMP, but I wrote a guide about how to do it, here:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/12/04/how-do-you-buy-a-rifle-from-the-cmp-part-1-putting/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/12/05/how-to-buy-a-firearm-from-the-cmp-part-2-ordering-your-weapon/

M1 Garands are a bit quirky, but if you do your reading you'll be just fine, and when they pay off they are extremely fun rifles.

The Swiss milsurps, K31 et al, are also fantastic shooters with available match-grade milsurp ammo.

And of course, you could get a nice Czech Mauser in 8mm and feed it all the surplus you want, as 8mm is still pretty cheap.

 

So there are a lot of options.

[ApplesauceBandit]

By the sounds of it, if I can get one of those M39 Mosins now, then I should do that.

I'd want to look at it more tomorrow when I'm at my computer, but my concern with buying a surplus gun off the internet is I don't want to end up buying one with a bad bore.

I'll be back tomorrow to reply to things.

[Collimatrix]

I have no idea WTF this is.

[Sturgeon]

That is a Guiberson trench rifle.

The chances of you getting an M39 wuth a poor bore are probably pretty low. If you're really worried about it (and/or if you want a prettier rifle), pay the extra $20 for hand-select.

Those guns are going for about $100 more on GunBroker right now, so if you really hate it you can make your money back pretty easily.

[ApplesauceBandit]

I think what I'll end up doing is getting one of those VKT M39 Mosins with the $20 hand select, still unsure on if I should get a sling too while it's easy.  The m/39 looks like both a fine gun and a nice investment, especially since they're probably about to start being more expensive.

 

 

 

While a carry gun has more utility, I also live in the nicer part of town so for the most part I don't really ever find myself feeling sketched out without one.  A Glock 19, while it may still be able to be concealed fine and be more fun to shoot, it's still twice as big as the MDE.  The ability to put it in my pocket almost like a phone is the important part, something the Glock 19 won't really be able to do near as well.  A lot of what I would wear wouldn't conceal something at my waist as well as I'd like.  If I've got it in a wallet holster, for all anyone knows, it's a wallet. 

 

I've still not really been able to find many negative reviews at all about the MDE, though I could certainly look deeper as well.  The thing about "boring guns" is a good point though, and I would imagine myself ending up with a Glock (or CZ-75 or other good handgun) and MDE in the future anyway.  The MDE is also a relatively new gun for the most part, so I don't think it would have had time to achieve boring status yet. 

 

The MDE just doesn't sound like the best first gun I could get.  Combine that with how now is a good time to get the Model 39 Mosin, and I think I've made my decision.

 

 

 

 

There was a lot of big posts, and while I didn't address everything in this reply, I had read it all and appreciate the advice.  The CMP is something I've been meaning to look into as well, so I've got those pages bookmarked.

[Sturgeon]

By all means, get a pocket pistol (eventually). They are popular for a reason.

That reason is just not "they are loads of fun to shoot".

[LoooSeR]

[Bronezhilet]

If I was carrying that thing, I would have the exact same look on my face.

[Donward]

He looks like Yao Ming...

[LoooSeR]

This is ideal mag for IV8888 meltdowns videos. You can end a video with gun failing before mag will be empty!

[LoooSeR]

[Belesarius]

http://www.armyrecognition.com/weapons_defence_industry_military_technology_uk/old_7.62mm_pkm_machine_gun_will_be_replaced_by_modern_pkp_pecheneg_in_the_russian_army_11405161.html

 

PKM to replaced by PKP.

[Sturgeon]

Part 1 of The Spergening: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/05/14/analysis-soldiers-load-6-5mm-cased-telescoped-ammunition-part-1/

[Alex C.]

We Meplat now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1926 produced Mk VI RSAF gun.

 

Shot it yesterday and I now appreciate Smith/Colt revolvers more than I ever thought possible.

 

Worked well, but I did have a bullet jump crimp.

[Khand-e]

We Meplat now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1926 produced Mk VI RSAF gun.

 

Shot it yesterday and I now appreciate Smith/Colt revolvers more than I ever thought possible.

 

Worked well, but I did have a bullet jump crimp.

 

Needs more Moonshine and explosive filled rounds.

[Sturgeon]

Just wrote a post on how expensive it would be to switch to the 6.5 Grendel. Anyone want to take a guess for combined development and procurement costs for half a million new uppers, new magazines, and a billion rounds of ammo?