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Sturgeon's House

Post Election Thread: Democracy Dies In Darkness And You Can Help


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Have you talked to any protesters?  I have.  People are protesting because they are scared.  It's not about Republican vs Democrat, it's because people are scared that this president is a danger to their basic rights and freedoms.  Now, it may not seem that way to you, since you seem to be able to ignore every offensive turd that came out of Trumps mouth during the campaign (it's the media's fault he said these things!), but a lot of other people saw those comments and actions for what they are.  

I have as well, and while I certainly agree with what you've said, Sturgeon was right on a lot too.  I'm on a college campus, so that probably impacted a lot of who I was seeing.  This protest was more against Trump being elected than it was for being in support of some candidate or party.  There were plenty of people here who hated the shit out of Hillary too, yet were still yelling fuck Trump.

 

They were more concerned about the people around Trump than they were about Trump himself or his policies.  Really the only specific policy I heard them bring up as a talking point was the stuff Mike "curing queers with amperes" Pence would like to do to gay folks. 

 

Pretty much every single person there was only concerned about how this will effect women, minorities, and LGBT people.  The impression I got from them is the ~200 people out on Thursday here would have been much smaller in numbers if the media wasn't trying as hard as they could to push the "Trump and his supporters are bigots" narrative.  With how often terms like White Privilege were thrown around, as well as how strong their fear was, I imagine a good few of them think we're actually headed into Jim Crow stuff again.  A couple of them I talked to were saying they found the term Make America Great Again to be legitimately offensive, since they believed the Again part of it had racist connotations.

 

 

They did give me the strong impression that a lot of their concerns weren't entirely from the right places, but their ultimate goal here seemed to be they just wanted people to get along.  I ended up in this whole deal on Thursday by accident, but it seems to me like it was largely solved the same day.  The night (and protests) ended with both sides agreeing to set aside their differences and tell people who are attacking others to stop being twats.  If all the protests have this as their end goal, I can't say I'm too terribly concerned about their reasoning.

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Lowest voter turnout in 20 years.

Both sides ran shite candidates.

Parts of both sides are having problems admitting that.

I'm hoping for lulz as Trump/Tea Party/Establishment Republicans tangle with each other.

I'm very worried about LGBT rights rollbacks with how much power Trump is said to be talking about giving Pence. I have serious concerns about health care access for several of my friends.  Trump's recent comments on that give a glimmer of hope, but I don't know that Trump will be able to get anything reasonable past congress.

 

If Trump focuses on 'draining the swamp' he could rapidly gain political capital with the middle ground.

I'm hoping for that.

I don't think that is what is going to happen.

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Which is hilarious because how much of the general election - and how much of the primaries even - involved Trump running against LGBTQ rights?

 

Or on the normal wedge social issues like abortion?

 

I can tell you, not a lot. And personally, I can give a shit about Teh Gayz or abortion or marriage. The federal government shouldn't be involved in any of those issues as they are states rights issues, which is why when you get married, it is by the authority of the State of ____.

 

In the meanwhile, a FB acquaintance posted this WaPo article from October 13.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/10/13/trump-just-laid-out-a-pretty-radical-student-debt-plan/

 

Trump is HITLER! HITLER!!!

 

Oh wait. You mean I can pay my student loans off early?

 

Red MAGA hats pop up at every leftist rally.

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Lowest voter turnout in 20 years.

Both sides ran shite candidates.

Parts of both sides are having problems admitting that.

I'm hoping for lulz as Trump/Tea Party/Establishment Republicans tangle with each other.

I'm very worried about LGBT rights rollbacks with how much power Trump is said to be talking about giving Pence. I have serious concerns about health care access for several of my friends.  Trump's recent comments on that give a glimmer of hope, but I don't know that Trump will be able to get anything reasonable past congress.

 

If Trump focuses on 'draining the swamp' he could rapidly gain political capital with the middle ground.

I'm hoping for that.

I don't think that is what is going to happen.

 

Trump has an advantage in that Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell both did jack squat in helping him get elected and - in fact - did everything they could to derail the Trump Train. As such, while Trump will benefit from GOP majorities in the House and Senate initially, he isn't beholden to GOP congresscritters and has made a policy of calling them out when it suits him. Considering that Congress has something like a 10 or 15 percent approval rating - if one believes polls - The Donald doesn't really lose anything by calling them out. 

 

Again, it's three days after the election and is way to early to make overly broad prognostications. We'll see how Trump's cabinet fleshes out.

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Which is hilarious because how much of the general election - and how much of the primaries even - involved Trump running against LGBTQ rights?

 

Or on the normal wedge social issues like abortion?

 

I can tell you, not a lot. And personally, I can give a shit about Teh Gayz or abortion or marriage. The federal government shouldn't be involved in any of those issues as they are states rights issues, which is why when you get married, it is by the authority of the State of ____.

 

In the meanwhile, a FB acquaintance posted this WaPo article from October 13.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/10/13/trump-just-laid-out-a-pretty-radical-student-debt-plan/

 

Trump is HITLER! HITLER!!!

 

Oh wait. You mean I can pay my student loans off early?

 

Red MAGA hats pop up at every leftist rally.

Which is fine, if you believe that Trump is the only one setting the agenda.

 

But as Sturgeon pointed out, he doesn't have that much power. 

If he doesn't give a shit about LGBT issues, why would he bother to fight the GOP over that?  When he appoints Pence, who is a shitlord of the highest order on anything to do with Gay rights to head his transition team, you don't think that is a reason for LGBT people to freak the fuck out?

 

We shall see how it plays out.

 

I hope like hell Sturgeon is right again.

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Trump has an advantage in that Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell both did jack squat in helping him get elected and - in fact - did everything they could to derail the Trump Train. As such, while Trump will benefit from GOP majorities in the House and Senate initially, he isn't beholden to GOP congresscritters and has made a policy of calling them out when it suits him. Considering that Congress has something like a 10 or 15 percent approval rating - if one believes polls - The Donald doesn't really lose anything by calling them out. 

 

Again, it's three days after the election and is way to early to make overly broad prognostications. We'll see how Trump's cabinet fleshes out.

He still has to rely on those assholes to get his stuff passed tho.

 

The Democrats aren't gonna vote for him.

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Which is fine, if you believe that Trump is the only one setting the agenda.

 

But as Sturgeon pointed out, he doesn't have that much power. 

If he doesn't give a shit about LGBT issues, why would he bother to fight the GOP over that?  When he appoints Pence, who is a shitlord of the highest order on anything to do with Gay rights to head his transition team, you don't think that is a reason for LGBT people to freak the fuck out?

 

We shall see how it plays out.

 

I hope like hell Sturgeon is right again.

 

I don't see where the motivation of wasting time on Teh Gayz is coming from though. I look at Breitbart and Drudge. I listen to Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage. I have a pretty good finger on the pulse of conservative politics and I just don't see forcing the issue of gay rights as being a primary concern.

 

Not when there's ObamaCare. Not when "The Wall" needs to be built and immigration fixed. Not when law-and-order needs to be restored in the inner cities. There's more motivation to push back on 2nd Amendment restrictions and undo executive orders prohibiting guns being imported into the country. Not when Common Core needs to be eliminated and the Department of Education reduced in scope. Not when the military needs to be fixed. 

 

I'm sorry but the entire world doesn't revolve around Teh Gayz even though many individuals in that community seem to think so. Now this doesn't mean that sometime in the immediate future there'll be a news story that will get blown out of proportion forcing Gay Rights onto the national agenda. But again, I just don't see it on the Conservative radar atm.

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I agree with Dilbertman that Trump will be a very "democratic" president (although not necessarily for the reasons Adams gives). Trump appears to have a very sensitive ear for what people want, and he used that ear to win the election. Put that piece of info together with the fact that I seriously can't imagine any reason Donald Trump would want to run for President other than to actually try to improve the country, and I think Trump will listen to people's concerns and do his best to address them. If you're skeptical and need examples of Trump doing this, try looking at his 100 Day Plan (AKA the "Donald J Trump Contract with the American Voter"), or at the student debt plan Don linked above. Hell, the 100 Day Plan incorporates shit I've only heard from Libertarians!

Now, the President isn't a God-Emperor, so he won't just be able to "make it so", and we have a solid red congress right now. So how will Trump actually do guiding the government to taking the steps he will want to take? I don't know, but we've got a stunned Republican party looking for someone to lead them, and Trump has and will. So it's going to be very amusing going forward, I think.

My guess is, homosexuality won't even be an issue for the Republicans by 2020.

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I don't see where the motivation of wasting time on Teh Gayz is coming from though. I look at Breitbart and Drudge. I listen to Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage. I have a pretty good finger on the pulse of conservative politics and I just don't see forcing the issue of gay rights as being a primary concern.

 

Not when there's ObamaCare. Not when "The Wall" needs to be built and immigration fixed. Not when law-and-order needs to be restored in the inner cities. There's more motivation to push back on 2nd Amendment restrictions and undo executive orders prohibiting guns being imported into the country. Not when Common Core needs to be eliminated and the Department of Education reduced in scope. Not when the military needs to be fixed. 

 

I'm sorry but the entire world doesn't revolve around Teh Gayz even though many individuals in that community seem to think so. Now this doesn't mean that sometime in the immediate future there'll be a news story that will get blown out of proportion forcing Gay Rights onto the national agenda. But again, I just don't see it on the Conservative radar.

 

I don't really follow all those sources much, but this is about the impression I've gotten.  Trump would save a lot more face by ignoring Pence on this stuff than he would for supporting it.  Even some rather conservative Christians I've met who think gay and LGBT stuff is morally wrong think that we shouldn't be bringing in big government to enforce those moral codes of theirs.  They were very much the "Love the sinner, hate the sin" sort of conservative Christian.

 

The impression I've gotten is the people who actually want to cut back on LGBT rights are a minority.  The two sides that I do often see are those in support of these rights or those that don't really care too deeply on the matter.  I don't think there's any doubt that there are people who think we need to be more strict on LGBT rights, but I've not met any personally who have told me that.

 

It's certainly the case with me, but I think that the vast majority of people who chose Trump see the issues that need to be addressed as a lot more important than worrying about who can go in bathrooms or who can put rings on other peoples fingers.  I was talking to a guy from Michigan a bit ago, and he says the reason that Trump won there was he rallied there, listened to what the rural folks had to say, and treated them like people.  Hillary only dropped by near the very end of the race and didn't even address all those people who were hurting and being ignored by everyone else.

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David Gerrold.  To put in context, the guy who wrote the original Star Trek episode 'The Trouble with Tribbles'.  Someone who I empathize with, and who should be an ally.

 

 

And I just got throw aside like toilet paper because I dared to call him out for not paying up a political bet.

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David Gerrold. To put in context, the guy who wrote the original Star Trek episode 'The Trouble with Tribbles'. Someone who I empathize with, and who should be an ally.

And I just got throw aside like toilet paper because I dared to call him out for not paying up a political bet.

Welcome to the club, here's your membership card.

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David Gerrold.  To put in context, the guy who wrote the original Star Trek episode 'The Trouble with Tribbles'.  Someone who I empathize with, and who should be an ally.

 

 

And I just got throw aside like toilet paper because I dared to call him out for not paying up a political bet.

 

Fuck man. That's No Bueno. 

 

It says a lot about the fragility of certain individual's egos that they are not able to stand up to the vigors of political discourse. Especially if they hold a somewhat public position.

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Fuck man. That's No Bueno. 

 

It says a lot about the fragility of certain individual's egos that they are not able to stand up to the vigors of political discourse. Especially if they hold a somewhat public position.

I disagree with you on a lot of things Don.  But it is honest disagreement.  I'm perfectly willing to stand up to you and go toe to toe arguing my points if needs be.  I think you and I have reached at least that level of discourse.

 

 

Unfriending and blocking someone because they call you out for welshing on a bet?  That's fucking shallow as fuck.  

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