Israeli AFVs

[Lox]

5 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Noice. Then what's behind the Ofek? Some new M113 variant? 

And any idea what new stuff they put on the Ofek other than Satcom?

Just a nagmash pikud, a quick Google search tells me it's called M577 in english as someone said.

 

I didn't go inside the Ofek for obvious reasons, but from what I've seen it looked nothing ground breaking just a heavier nagmash pikud. I know littile of command APCs to be honest.

 

The guy in the pic is trying the refuel the damn thing, considering the two back refueling ports are gone due to the superstructure, it took him some time xD

[VPZ]

41 minutes ago, Lox said:

Just a nagmash pikud, a quick Google search tells me it's called M577 in english as someone said.

 

I didn't go inside the Ofek for obvious reasons, but from what I've seen it looked nothing ground breaking just a heavier nagmash pikud. I know littile of command APCs to be honest.

 

The guy in the pic is trying the refuel the damn thing, considering the two back refueling ports are gone due to the superstructure, it took him some time xD

 

Does it have Merkava-like or Namer-like rear hatch?

[Mighty_Zuk]

M577 indeed. Just didn't know due to the lack of focus.

[Serge]

27 minutes ago, VPZ said:

 

Does it have Merkava-like or Namer-like rear hatch?

Don’t know for this one but, the most simple configuration keep the legacy door. 

[VPZ]

30 minutes ago, Serge said:

Don’t know for this one but, the most simple configuration keep the legacy door. 

 

Some has Namer-like door.

[Serge]

It’s possible because some Ofek have heavily rebuilt rear with a high opening compatible with APC ramp. 

Large doors are important for CP because the staf spends many times outside of the vehicle. Very of often, you need to talk to someone inside staying outside. So, the CP while static, keeps its doors open. 

You must close the ramp at nighttime because, at night, lights attract problems more than noise. 

[Mighty_Zuk]

There is no reason why the new variant won't have the Namer's door. Actually, it's probably even taller than the Namer's:

Spoiler

 

I'd see why some stuff weren't implemented on the very earliest variants. Perhaps it wasn't even a serial production variant, the one we've seen with the legacy hatch. 

But there's no reason why not go the whole way with the new ones, especially when they're adding so much gear that is so much more expensive than a door.

[Serge]

It depends. 

Tsahal’s got hundreds of Mk2 chassis and nobody needs hundreds of pikuds (but China and India of course). And we have to keep in mind the Eitan pikud to come. 

 

So what is the interest of the legacy clamshell ?

Tsahal is specific in that it use heavy patrollers on old tank chassis. They are mixt of patrol vehicles, APC and observation posts. 

On the other hand, if the rebuilt of a vehicle is limited, you save money and you’re shortening « time to market ».

The clamshell configuration is not a problem for patrolling. The vehicle will keep it closed as a rule. 

 

So, Tsahal can have two dedicated options on the meantime :

- APC rear ramp for pikud like use ;

- the less expensive and faster to provide clamshell legacy design. 

[Mighty_Zuk]

21 minutes ago, Serge said:

It depends. 

Tsahal’s got hundreds of Mk2 chassis and nobody needs hundreds of pikuds (but China and India of course). And we have to keep in mind the Eitan pikud to come. 

 

So what is the interest of the legacy clamshell ?

Tsahal is specific in that it use heavy patrollers on old tank chassis. They are mixt of patrol vehicles, APC and observation posts. 

On the other hand, if the rebuilt of a vehicle is limited, you save money and you’re shortening « time to market ».

The clamshell configuration is not a problem for patrolling. The vehicle will keep it closed as a rule. 

 

So, Tsahal can have two dedicated options on the meantime :

- APC rear ramp for pikud like use ;

- the less expensive and faster to provide clamshell legacy design. 

That is only if we assume the IDF decides to go the Achzarit and Nagmashot road again with the Mark 2, but it won't. That's what the Namer is for. 

With such low numbers of CP vehicles (relative to MBTs) it's best not to bother with multiple variants.

[Newtonk]

14 hours ago, Lox said:

I took it

Thank you, Lox, most intriguing. From a strictly modelling perspective, what does the roof look like, please? Thank you. 

[Lox]

8 hours ago, VPZ said:

 

Does it have Merkava-like or Namer-like rear hatch?

Something bigger than both it seemed, and the style was more so Namer-like, 

 

7 hours ago, Serge said:

It’s possible because some Ofek have heavily rebuilt rear with a high opening compatible with APC ramp. 

Large doors are important for CP because the staf spends many times outside of the vehicle. Very of often, you need to talk to someone inside staying outside. So, the CP while static, keeps its doors open. 

You must close the ramp at nighttime because, at night, lights attract problems more than noise. 

This guy knows

 

17 minutes ago, Newtonk said:

Thank you, Lox, most intriguing. From a strictly modelling perspective, what does the roof look like, please? Thank you. 

Sadly idk, sorry I feel like a tease, but I wasn't gonna climb on top of it in the middle of thier exercise xD

 

I've also came across this fella

 

[Newtonk]

Thanks for that, Lox; it was wishful thinking. And it would look at bit odd...

[VPZ]

Is Ofek from exhibition a serial variant or demonstrator?

[Mighty_Zuk]

1 hour ago, VPZ said:

Is Ofek from exhibition a serial variant or demonstrator?

Perhaps it'll get better armor on the superstructure, but I'm not too sure what to think about a Merkava 2 used as a CP vehicle. I don't see why it's hard to allocate 1 vehicle out of 100 for command (brigade level), by using a Mark 4 chassis, with a Trophy and all.

[Lox]

1 hour ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Perhaps it'll get better armor on the superstructure, but I'm not too sure what to think about a Merkava 2 used as a CP vehicle. I don't see why it's hard to allocate 1 vehicle out of 100 for command (brigade level), by using a Mark 4 chassis, with a Trophy and all.

Golani do that, I've posted one of them on a trailer a while back, tho I don't think they have trophy on them

[Mighty_Zuk]

45 minutes ago, Lox said:

Golani do that, I've posted one of them on a trailer a while back, tho I don't think they have trophy on them

You mean they use a standard Namer command vehicle? 

I assume they'll be the first to get the Trophy, that is, right after the 603rd combat engineers. Means Givati are probably getting the Golani's old APCs kinda like they inherited the Achzarit from Golani.

[Serge]

5 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Perhaps it'll get better armor on the superstructure, but I'm not too sure what to think about a Merkava 2 used as a CP vehicle. I don't see why it's hard to allocate 1 vehicle out of 100 for command (brigade level), by using a Mark 4 chassis, with a Trophy and all.

There are different points to consider. 

What is the very interest in using Mk4 as an Ofek chassis ? None. 

Pikud are spending their live concealed prying not to be detected.

 

In a country facing a daily risk of war, priorities must be the ruler :

- 1% can represent a company ;

- Mk2 are free. So you can use the budget somewhere else ;

- facilities capabilities are a natural  regulator. If it takes 100h to manufacture an Ofek and 400h for a Namer, there is no choice. 

[Sirpad]

9 hours ago, VPZ said:

Is Ofek from exhibition a serial variant or demonstrator?

Serial variant of the new model, based on the Mk 3 chassis - Thought someone would have noticed the stark difference by now.

[VPZ]

31 minutes ago, Sirpad said:

Serial variant of the new model, based on the Mk 3 chassis - Thought someone would have noticed the stark difference by now.

 

Spoiler

 

What about this MLRS?

[Mighty_Zuk]

7 minutes ago, VPZ said:

 

  Hide contents

 

What about this MLRS?

 

Just 2 quad packs of EXTRA rockets (150km range) on a HEMTT. Nothing special about it. It will enter service, whether in this configuration or another, in the coming years as the IDF will create its short range ballistic missile arm. 

[Mighty_Zuk]

1 hour ago, Sirpad said:

Serial variant of the new model, based on the Mk 3 chassis - Thought someone would have noticed the stark difference by now.

@Lox and @VPZ I can't believe you guys missed that.

 

But, there are no out of service Merkava 3 chassis, at least as far as I know. There are still about 2 brigades and a half of Merkava 2 tanks. It makes no sense to me, to use a Merkava 3 chassis.

[VPZ]

34 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

 

Just 2 quad packs of EXTRA rockets (150km range) on a HEMTT. Nothing special about it. It will enter service, whether in this configuration or another, in the coming years as the IDF will create its short range ballistic missile arm. 

 

It's special, because this missiles surpass standard MLRS.

[Mighty_Zuk]

1 minute ago, VPZ said:

 

It's special, because this missiles surpass standard MLRS.

Yeah but it was talked about for quite a while, a while ago, when Liberman declared the IDF needs another branch to operate long range missiles. 

It's going to be EXTRA and probably either the Predator Hawk from IMI, or LORA from IAI.

[Mighty_Zuk]

 

Does anyone know how to steal a video from a website like this?

The link, my dudes.

[Lox]

9 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

@Lox and @VPZ I can't believe you guys missed that.

 

But, there are no out of service Merkava 3 chassis, at least as far as I know. There are still about 2 brigades and a half of Merkava 2 tanks. It makes no sense to me, to use a Merkava 3 chassis.

I think I lost you, are you suggesting the Ofek is based of the Mk3? In what pic can you see it's serial number?