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N-L-M

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On 3/23/2019 at 5:07 PM, N-L-M said:

E.      Deseret 40mm AC/ Cascadian 35mm AC
These autocannon share broadly similar AP performance, and are considered a likely threat for the foreseeable future, on Deseret armored cars, Cascadian tank destroyers, and likely also future IFVs.

 

What is the estimated penetration of 35mm and 40mm AP rounds?

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3 hours ago, T___A said:

Attention trans ladies, natal-ladies, and other, equally valid genders

qhX9hvQ.jpg

 

It is I, Her Gracious and Serene Majesty Queen Diane Feinstein the VIII, I have been keeping a close eye on this competition and frankly I think we can do better. The Dianetic People’s Republic of California is, after all, the most diverse country in the world. Our diversity quota ensure that only one cishet white male is allowed on your design team. Anyway, I think that we aim for the stars with this new tank and should have a gun that accomplishes that. I am adjusting the requirements: The gun must use traditional AP rounds. Sub-caliber rounds limit our ability to develop high-explosive rounds which, is the main ammo type of our tanks. One of my aides informs me that full-bore AP is more effective against NERA. Also the phallic structure of sub-caliber rounds enforces toxic heteromasculinity. The requirements for this new gun should be around 8 inches of penetration at 1.25 miles at .1200 minutes of an arc. That way this tank can defeat anything those Cascadians Chuds can throw at us.

 

3 hours ago, T___A said:

Oh, I forgot to mention, that comic sans is the now the official font of The Dianetic People’s Republic of California because people with dyslexic enhanced brains can read it better than other fonts.

 

As you wish her majesty, the most Gracious and Serene Queen Feinstein VIII! 

 We have recently introduced our new gender equity policy and" taken care of" our excess cishet white males. Our new most skilled and autistic genderfluid dyslexic engineers are hard to work for satisfy your needs! No less than 8 inches! 

We will make sure all our guns satisfy your needs! 

 

 

3 hours ago, N-L-M said:

Praise be unto Her Glorious and Wise Majesty. 

So it is written, so it shall be.

Long live our Great and divine Queen for a thousand years!

Let her words be heard!

 

 

 

 

(On a side note, got damn, now I need to fit a huge 200mm gun into my poor, tiny, special panser. )

 

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Front layer and top plate has been added - my one weighs currently 25,9 tonnes with the lightest armor configuration (36mm HHS + 240mm air + 80mm CHA / 62 degrees)

 

EDIT: 24mm HHS, not 36mm HHS. And tank now weighs 25,3 metric tons.

TLFTrxT.png

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12 hours ago, T___A said:

Attention trans ladies, natal-ladies, and other, equally valid genders

qhX9hvQ.jpg

 

It is I, Her Gracious and Serene Majesty Queen Diane Feinstein the VIII, I have been keeping a close eye on this competition and frankly I think we can do better. The Dianetic People’s Republic of California is, after all, the most diverse country in the world. Our diversity quota ensure that only one cishet white male is allowed on your design team. Anyway, I think that we aim for the stars with this new tank and should have a gun that accomplishes that. I am adjusting the requirements: The gun must use traditional AP rounds. Sub-caliber rounds limit our ability to develop high-explosive rounds which, is the main ammo type of our tanks. One of my aides informs me that full-bore AP is more effective against NERA. Also the phallic structure of sub-caliber rounds enforces toxic heteromasculinity. The requirements for this new gun should be around 8 inches of penetration at 1.25 miles at 1200 minutes of an arc. That way this tank can defeat anything those Cascadians Chuds can throw at us.

 

 

 

 

The dianetic firm of Hakika si Kundi la Dudes Nyeupe (HKDN) hears and obeys.

 

On this front, we are delighted to report that our existing Brick junior design, if stretched a little, is capable of firing full-bore AP-FS which will meet the Most Gracious and Serene Majesty's requirements. The barrel has been rebored ever so slightly to 152mm. The propellant section dimensions are now 160x1050mm, while the warhead section is now 152x1050mm, bottlenecked to 160mm at the base. The shell is an entirely new design in line with scientologistic principles (and not, for instance, an ancient BR-540B shell with folding fins welded onto the end) and is expected to penetrate ~200mm at 2000m.

 

In other happy news, the design team has now been certified up to OT-7 thanks to the efforts of Chadina, who successfully petitioned for readjustment of her existing level after a tragic oversight by the relevant auditor in regards to her neuro-gifted tendencies. We trust that with this higher level of Operating Thetans, HKDN's design will more fully embody dianetic principles as it develops further going forwards.

 

 

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So OOC (note: all in-character stuff will be in comic sans from now on) but I feel like this competition has made me properly understand some of the dilemmas of modern AFV design for the first time.

 

There's nothing like designing something and running the numbers yourself to give you a visceal understanding of it, and seeing just how much reactive armour elements add to the mix (and how much tandem charges fuck things up) is impressive. I think the key difference is that, heretofore, we always used simple modifiers of RHA effectiveness to represent the active armour elements. And these simply don't capture what's going on very well.

 

So I'd like to thank @N-L-M and company for the learning experience going on here. It's appreciated gents (and trans-gents, ladies, transladies, gender-neutral conglomerate entities etc).

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On 4/2/2019 at 5:56 PM, T___A said:

Attention trans ladies, natal-ladies, and other, equally valid genders

qhX9hvQ.jpg

 

It is I, Her Gracious and Serene Majesty Queen Diane Feinstein the VIII, I have been keeping a close eye on this competition and frankly I think we can do better. The Dianetic People’s Republic of California is, after all, the most diverse country in the world. Our diversity quota ensure that only one cishet white male is allowed on your design team. Anyway, I think that we aim for the stars with this new tank and should have a gun that accomplishes that. I am adjusting the requirements: The gun must use traditional AP rounds. Sub-caliber rounds limit our ability to develop high-explosive rounds which, is the main ammo type of our tanks. One of my aides informs me that full-bore AP is more effective against NERA. Also the phallic structure of sub-caliber rounds enforces toxic heteromasculinity. The requirements for this new gun should be around 8 inches of penetration at 1.25 miles at 1200 minutes of an arc. That way this tank can defeat anything those Cascadians Chuds can throw at us.

 

Your Majesty!

 

Our company, Aegis of Pacific, promises to fulfill your (and our) expectations so we'd like to create very well protected tank (as well as other ones) but it will be lighter, faster and more innovative machine than these cascadian chuds' junk and our rivals' machines! Unfortunately, our team has managed to create AP rounds to our gun which penetrates only 7'7" RHA plate at 1.25 miles but we could do it using our genial cannon which has only 110mm caliber! The other ones wants to create 6" and greater cannons to their tanks but our product will have higher rate of fire so we can supress those p**cks from Seattle in the future!

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2 hours ago, Lord_James said:

@Collimatrix, any sneak peaks at your crazy road wheels and suspension? 

Now I am intrigued.

 

 

2 hours ago, Lord_James said:

Edit: also, for anyone, how is the mass efficiency calculated for the available armor materials? Is it “to defeat a reference threat, the mass of armor is [ratio] compared to steel”? 

I would assume they simply used a shell that could penetrate something like a 50mm steel plate, found the needed thickness for the other material, and divided it by the total mass.

 

For example:

A 50mm steel plate would stop shell A.

A 150mm aluminum plate would stop shell A.

Aluminum is close to 1/3 the weight of steel. 

Therefor: 3 times the thickness divided by 1/3 the weight would equal a mass efficiency of 1. 

 

Extremely simplified of course. 

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40 minutes ago, Xoon said:

 

For example:

A 50mm steel plate would stop shell A.

A 150mm aluminum plate would stop shell A.

Aluminum is close to 1/3 the weight of steel. 

Therefor: 3 times the thickness divided by 1/3 the weight would equal a mass efficiency of 1. 

 

Extremely simplified of course. 

 

For Al 5083 compared to RHA: 

 

RHA 1cm x 1cm x 10cm is 78g, and can absorb 100mm of penetration. 

 

Al 5083  kinetic TE is 0.3, so 1cm x 1cm x 33.3cm is 89.9g, to stop the same KE threat. The ratio between RHA and Al mass is 0.87. 

 

Al 5083 cumulative TE is 0.33, so 1cm x 1cm x 30.3cm is 81.8g, and the ratio is 0.95. 

 

These numbers are close to the OP, but several other ratios are given with accuracy to 2 decimal places. I’m just looking for clarification. 

 

Also, shouldn’t HHA have a mass efficiency of 2 as it is the same density as RHA, but takes half the thickness of armor (and therefore half the mass, if no other dimensions are altered) to stop the same reference threat? 

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3 hours ago, Lord_James said:

@Collimatrix, any sneak peaks at your crazy road wheels and suspension? 

 

Edit: also, for anyone, how is the mass efficiency calculated for the available armor materials? Is it “to defeat a reference threat, the mass of armor is [ratio] compared to steel”? 

L-O can be calculated against targets with different densities and hardnesses (to a point), which gives you an idea of the KE mass and thickness equivalence of many bulk materials.

I've used this in the past to look at how efficient bone or diamond might be as armour materials, for instance.

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Hull of  the "Song Heavy - 1st Tank" (SH-1T, pun included :))

 

BYb8T5R.png

 

it is 8m long, 3.95m wide (plus an additional 0.04m when I get the basic side skirts modeled), and 1.7m high. Weighs 24.3 Mg (I'm just gonna use Megagrams, so neither I nor others get confused which 'ton' I'm talking about) currently. 

 

It has 5 armor cavities in the hull: 

 

1. Lower Hull: 50mm RHA + 585mm array + 50mm "Janet Pressed Armor" (JPA)* angled at 45o. 919mm LoS 

2. Left Upper Hull: : 40mm RHA + 200mm array + 40mm JPA angled at 75o. 1082mm LoS 

3. Right Upper Hull: 50mm RHA + 380mm array + 50mm JPA angled at 60o. 960mm LoS 

4. Lower Hull Sides: 20mm HHA + 850mm track/suspension + 20mm RHA + 100mm array + 45mm JPA. At 30o, 2070mm LoS. At 45o, 1464 LoS 

5. Upper Hull Sides: 20mm RHA + 850mm fuel tanks/spare parts bins +20mm RHA + 100mm array + 45mm JPA. same LoS as lower sides. 

 

In addition, there is also a 50mm JPA bulkhead between the engine and crew compartments, a double floor, and a separated forward propellant magazine. Array composition coming soontm.

 

I have yet to make a hole for the turret as I need to model the carousel loader and turret basket. Also don't worry about the forward hull sides not having an array, I have other plans for them :ph34r: 

 

 

 

*Song Industries proprietary armor technology. "Janet Pressed Armor" (JPA) was invented by Mann/Song liaison Janet Wilde; It has a ME of 1 and TE of 1.15-1.20 compared to RHA, can be produced in thicknesses between 25mm and 90mm without sacrificing efficiency, and can also be welded and used as a structural component. Unfortunately, it is more difficult and time consuming to produce than RHA, so use in vehicles will be restrained. (I'll tell you guys what it is when the competition is over, but @N-L-M confirmed that it is valid for the competition) 

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8 hours ago, Lord_James said:

 

Somewhere between the rear of the hull and the driver’s hatch. I mentioned why I haven’t made a hole for the turret in my post. 

pft, who needs turrets anyways? 

 

 

Anyways, completed my suspension unit:
W4wNmVd.png

 

If anyone is interested in knowing how the suspension works, feel free to ask. 

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More picks of the SH-1T, now with road wheels and 2 new armor cavities! 

 

Spoiler

h2WkcwW.png

 

aYcoEER.png

 

Weight is up to 35.86 Mg, with the suspension and wheels taking up 8.6 Mg by themselves (steel torsion bars with 850mm diameter aluminum wheels). 

 

New Armor cavities: 

 

6. Engine Compartment Roof: 30mm RHA + 60mm array + 30mm JPA at 7o. 992mm LoS 

7. Crew Compartment Roof: 25mm RHA + light NERA + 36mm JPA. might reverse angle the NERA or change the material, as I'm getting disappointingly low numbers for roof protection. 

 

I also raised the crew compartment floor, so no one can trip over the autoloader, though this reduces the head room from 1.45m to 1.26m. 

 

near future: 

 

A. mock up turret and carousel loader. 

B. extend the sponsons backwards to make space for a rear idler, additional cover for the rear door, and rear aesthetics. 

C. place ammo racks (the current front space can fit 42 charges). 

D. armor arrays and side skirts. 

 

later: 

 

E. Upgrade kits 

F. front dozer blade (a la T-72)

G. alternate turrets/vehicles 

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On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 5:56 PM, T___A said:

Attention trans ladies, natal-ladies, and other, equally valid genders

qhX9hvQ.jpg

 

It is I, Her Gracious and Serene Majesty Queen Diane Feinstein the VIII, I have been keeping a close eye on this competition and frankly I think we can do better. The Dianetic People’s Republic of California is, after all, the most diverse country in the world. Our diversity quota ensure that only one cishet white male is allowed on your design team. Anyway, I think that we aim for the stars with this new tank and should have a gun that accomplishes that. I am adjusting the requirements: The gun must use traditional AP rounds. Sub-caliber rounds limit our ability to develop high-explosive rounds which, is the main ammo type of our tanks. One of my aides informs me that full-bore AP is more effective against NERA. Also the phallic structure of sub-caliber rounds enforces toxic heteromasculinity. The requirements for this new gun should be around 8 inches of penetration at 1.25 miles at 1200 minutes of an arc. That way this tank can defeat anything those Cascadians Chuds can throw at us.

 

 

 

 

So in case anyone is wondering (not that I'm advocating anything for or against anything), the minimum specs needed to punch through 203mm RHA sloped at 20' degrees from vertical at 2000m is:

- 122m gun, ~12.3MJ muzzle energy

- 25kg APBC, 992m/s (mass and penetration based on 122mm BR-471D)

 

So this can in principle be achieved using a hot D-25T

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24 minutes ago, Toxn said:

So in case anyone is wondering (not that I'm advocating anything for or against anything), the minimum specs needed to punch through 203mm RHA sloped at 20' degrees from vertical at 2000m is:

- 122m gun, ~12.3MJ muzzle energy

- 25kg APBC, 992m/s (mass and penetration based on 122mm BR-471D)

 

So this can in principle be achieved using a hot D-25T

 

Well the T-10M's main gun can do it. 

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