What the Hell is the Point of Interleaved Road Wheels?

[Toxn]

3 hours ago, delete013 said:

 

It is still quite untypical of the French to behave so timidly. They won ww1 but apparently lost the battle of the will, because Napoleon was precisely the opposite.

Losing an entire generation will do that to you. Don't forget that the French suffered proportionately the same casualties as the Germans (2.9% of their total population, nearly all young men) and did so entirely on their own soil. And all so that they could come back to a depressed economy and a crumbling empire.

 

I think the big lesson here is "don't fight on your own soil", which explains a lot of their planning and conduct. The other big lesson being, of course, that if you are going to fight the Germans in France, for God's sake do it close to the border and defensively.

[Toxn]

6 minutes ago, Beer said:

 

Tend to disagree here. Up to the very last moment the military kept buying literally thousands of 2-men tanks for the infantry support eqipped with the same vintage gun as the FT-17 (R-35, H-35, H-38, FCM-36). That means that by may 1940 the military had close to 3000 2-men tanks with useless guns which were by large majority produced during late 30'. That's a looot of resources vasted. 

That's bureaucratic cost-saving for you: penny-wise but pound-foolish. They'd have been better off melting down all the old junk and scrapping Estienne's smart idea, but how do you sell that to the higher-ups?

[Toxn]

2 hours ago, Sturgeon said:

 

That's exactly what happened in all sectors. The French (for a time) absorbed the German small arms collective as well, and played around with adapting their late war designs. In the end, like the tanks, they didn't end up using any of the German ideas, partly because unlike the French tank sector, the French small arms developments were still quite technologically competitive.

And partly because Stg-44 is overrated, right?

[Beer]

2 minutes ago, Toxn said:

I think the big lesson here is "don't fight on your own soil", which explains a lot of their planning and conduct. 

 

Ironically in reality they conducted exactly opposite. By September 1938 there were 7 German divisions on the entire western front and by September 1939 it was 23 divisions. The French even without the British had gigantic numerical advantage but in 1938 they decided to do nothing and in 1939 they advanced 8 km into Germany and retreated... 

[delete013]

2 hours ago, Sturgeon said:

 

You have absolutely lost the privilege of speaking authoritatively on anything, even if you're right.

What are you so bitter about?

[Toxn]

1 minute ago, Beer said:

 

Ironically in reality they conducted exactly opposite. By September 1938 there were 7 German divisions on the entire western front and by September 1939 it was 23 divisions. The French even without the British had gigantic numerical advantage but in 1938 they decided to do nothing and in 1939 they advanced 8 km into Germany and retreated... 

I'm not saying they were great at putting those lessons into practice...

[Sturgeon]

36 minutes ago, Toxn said:

And partly because Stg-44 is overrated, right?

 

They mostly played with the roller retarded blowback schema, which saw great success postwar.

Almost nobody bothered with the StG-44, in many ways it's the Panther of small arms (I would argue not as bad, though).

[Sturgeon]

32 minutes ago, delete013 said:

What are you so bitter about?

 

Well it all started when I was about four years old, my father, you see, he...

[Lord_James]

2 hours ago, Beer said:

FT was for sure the best tank of WW1 but by may 1940 there were still 1300 of them in French army service, of that roughly 530 in frontline units facing the German invasion...  

I was more referencing how lighter, faster, and more numerous tanks are, demonstrably, more effective than a couple “land ships”. But that only gets you so far: as stated previously, the outdated 37mm SA18s and one-man turrets were significant handicaps. 

[Collimatrix]

8 hours ago, Toxn said:

And partly because Stg-44 is overrated, right?

 

7 hours ago, Sturgeon said:

 

They mostly played with the roller retarded blowback schema, which saw great success postwar.

Almost nobody bothered with the StG-44, in many ways it's the Panther of small arms (I would argue not as bad, though).

Indeed.  Most of the early work on what would become the HK and CETME family of rifles was initially done in France by ex-Mauser employees.  They later moved to Spain, which they seem to have preferred for its relaxed economic protectionism, drier climate, and slightly fascist dictatorship.

[Sturgeon]

2 minutes ago, Collimatrix said:

 

Indeed.  Most of the early work on what would become the HK and CETME family of rifles was initially done in France by ex-Mauser employees.  They later moved to Spain, which they seem to have preferred for its relaxed economic protectionism, drier climate, and slightly fascist dictatorship.

 

Let's not forget their substantially superior sense of style.

[ZloyKrolik]

17 hours ago, Collimatrix said:

 

Indeed.  Most of the early work on what would become the HK and CETME family of rifles was initially done in France by ex-Mauser employees.  They later moved to Spain, which they seem to have preferred for its relaxed economic protectionism, drier climate, and slightly fascist dictatorship.

 

Rifle talk should be in Ballistics or Infantry forums. 

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

3 hours ago, ZloyKrolik said:

 

Rifle talk should be in Ballistics or Infantry forums. 

 

 

The main point is not the rifles, it's the Nazi failures, and making fun of them. 

[ZloyKrolik]

OK, spread the love, make fun of Nazi failures in those forums as well.

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

3 hours ago, ZloyKrolik said:

OK, spread the love, make fun of Nazi failures in those forums as well.

 

 

I think we try, people talking Nazi failures up are just so rare, at least around here.  I mean being a wehraboo is so 2012. 

[Toxn]

2 hours ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

 

I think we try, people talking Nazi failures up are just so rare, at least around here.  I mean being a wehraboo is so 2012. 

What can one do when your tribe has hunted its prey to extinction...

 

Guess we should start farming 'em.

[Sturgeon]

On 4/11/2021 at 6:16 PM, ZloyKrolik said:

 

Rifle talk should be in Ballistics or Infantry forums. 

 

Inappropriate topic policing, please refresh yourself on the forum's rules abd guidelines.

 

Noob.

[delete013]

11 hours ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 I mean being a wehraboo is so 2012. 

I thought for US military it was 70s and 80s.

[Ramlaen]

46 minutes ago, delete013 said:

I thought for US military it was 70s and 80s.

 

This should be entertaining.

[Toxn]

51 minutes ago, Ramlaen said:

 

This should be entertaining.

Yup. I mean, it seems plausible. But the source...

[delete013]

42 minutes ago, Toxn said:

Yup. I mean, it seems plausible. But the source...

Happy reading!

 

Disclamer: I don't say I agree with everything.

[Ramlaen]

1 hour ago, delete013 said:

Happy reading!

 

Disclamer: I don't say I agree with everything.

 

I ain't clicking a rando pdf.

[TokyoMorose]

19 minutes ago, Ramlaen said:

 

I ain't clicking a rando pdf.

 

It's a long, 180+ page thesis for a master's degree.

 

It's pretty decent skimming it, but I'm not going to read all of it.

[Sturgeon]

15 hours ago, delete013 said:

Happy reading!

 

Disclamer: I don't say I agree with everything.

 

i fOuNd A mAsTeR's tHeSiS

[Beer]

Soviet evaluation of Pershing in summer 1945 gives some light to the previously discussed terrain speed of Panther and Pershing. The result didn't favour Panther... 

http://www.tankarchives.ca/2018/03/pershing-heavy-by-necessity.html

 

This is the measured average speed in comparison with other tanks on the same terrain track. Pershing was the fastest of them in this test mainly thanks to its torque converter. 

 

T26E3 - 18,9 km/h

T-44 - 17,5 km/h

M4A4 - 16,5 km/h

Panther - 15,8 km/h

IS-3 - 14,6 km/h

 

Fuel consumption on the same track however showed that the torque converter made it also very thirsty, basically same as Panther. 

IS-3 - 373 l/100 km

T-44 - 378 l/100 km

M4A4 - 503 l/100 km

T26E3 - 585 l/ 100 km

Panther - 595 l/100 km