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Sturgeon's House

United States Military Vehicle General: Guns, G*vins, and Gas Turbines


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Requirements for the NGCV are quite vague.

Actually, NGCV is a very broad program and the core of it, that we've been talking about, is the OMFV - Optionally Manned Fighting Vehicle.


It consists of:



Robotic Wingman.




Two quite notable requirements of the OMFV are a capability to fit 2 vehicles inside a C-17 from which we infer a maximum GVM of 37.5 tons (if we round down the payload to 75 tons from 77.5 to account for less than ideal weight distribution).

And of course 6 men capacity.


A 6-man capacity was the main issue they had with the Bradley back in the GCV program. 

Literally as a key improvement to keep the Brad viable, they looked almost entirely on its capacity. They wanted 9 men.


How can they make the very same mistake with a clean sheet design?


They gotta change their mindset on this one. Change the tool, not the hand that uses it!



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The US Army picked which infantry brigade to convert into a 16th armor brigade.


This will provide the nation a 16th ABCT bringing the total number BCTs in the Regular Army (RA) and Army National Guard (ARNG) to 58. There will be a total of 31 BCTs in the RA, to include 11 ABCTs, 13 IBCTs and seven SBCTs. The ARNG will have a total of 27 BCTs, to include five ABCTs, 20 IBCTs and two SBCTs, ensuring a more balanced distribution between its light and heavy fighting forces.

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Funding for the now cancelled AAV-SU might be repurposed to give the AAV a remote weapon station.


"Reinvestment decisions will be made separately and focus on increasing lethality of the force,” Pacheco explained. “AAV SU divestiture assets may allow us to procure underfunded initiatives in the AAV modification line such as Tactical Communication Modernization and a Remote Weapons Station.”

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I'm also a bit dubitative on USAR suddenly having the funds to create and build a whole new turret with a new gun and autoloader AND possibly a new armor pack (NEA/NGAP or NGAP v1.1?) for the entire vehicle. I know they cancelled a bunch of proposed upgrades lately (thus freeing some of the moolah) but suddenly proposing an A3 when the M1A2D has just started development sounds too good to be true in my book. It's true that they've been meaning to give the hypothetical M1A3 a XM360E1 since the FCS program and that jamming a Meggitt horizontal compact autoloader into the turret bustle is something they've been talking about for a while already, but money has always been the ultimate c**kblocker to this multitude of wet dreams and Drummond's prediction seems a bit too good to be true. If anything, I expect them to continuously upgrade the Abrams using the SEPs rather than one big, instant package.


That said...if they did actually manage to unlock a couple billions to finance R&D and acquisition, good for the Abrams.

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I'd also add that Drummond is probably waaaay off base with the armor- we've seen the M1A2C prototypes running around with pretty large weight simulators, I highly doubt they're moving to a lighter armor package. I also doubt better IED armor is on the table when TUSK works pretty damn well and the focus is rapidly shifting back to high end war.

Also, while the new gun and autoloader are nice features, they don't actually add that much capability to the vehicle for their cost. Trophy and AMP capability are far more important, and Trophy isn't exactly cheap.

And finally, smaller turret!? The hell is he smoking? Smaller turret would have to be new build, which is not cheap, would decrease volume needed for systems (though without the loader there is more space available for juggling around), and if width reduction is involved would by definition reduce ammo capacity and squish the loader into the gun.


Drummond is a hack.

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14 minutes ago, N-L-M said:

(though without the loader there is more space available for juggling around)


That autoloader plan also proposes converting the loader into something akin to an EWO or drone pilot (either small UAVs or UGVs like the robotic wingmen). Still, to perform those duties he'd need some space and making his station more cramped would go in the way of that.

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4 hours ago, Ramlaen said:

Drummond likes to theorycraft.


2 hours ago, Belesarius said:
3 hours ago, N-L-M said:

Drummond is a hack.

That is a pretty widely agreed with opinion on this forum.


IDK, I'd think he'd fit in quite well around here. The reason why I felt the need to post was he has industry contacts a decent bit of access.  Apparently, they think he has pull in the UK.

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5 minutes ago, MRose said:



IDK, I'd think he'd fit in quite well around here. The reason why I felt the need to post was he has industry contacts a decent bit of access.  Apparently, they think he has pull in the UK.


He can't control the narrative here so I doubt he would stick around.

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