WoT v WT effort-thread

[Donward]

It's the new "Tank Sniper" medal. They did away with the old Sniper medal because I think enough unicums got butthurt over it. Now you must hit with over like 85 percent of your shots and do a thousand more hitpoints than that of your vehicle to get a "Tank Sniper".

[Sturgeon]

What do we all think about this?
 

[Ulric]

Tank sniper is to fire at least 8 shots with 85% min accuracy, and 80% of those shots doing damage. You also have to cause more damage than your own HP past 300m, and not have any FF.

[Donward]

What do we all think about this?

 

 

 

The guy is a mewling cunt and literally has no idea what he's talking about whining about "everybody has to hide behind massive cover or they'll be one shot".

 

I'm 2:30 in and everything that has come out of his face is wrong.

 

Seriously, these idjits whining about arty have zero idea of game mechanics, how world of tanks works and how Wot developers design maps.

 

I'm at 3:30 mark and the idiocy continues. "You have no warning when arty is going to fire at you," says the whiny little bitch. 

 

Hey cockbag, it's called basic cognitive awareness. 1) Your Sixth Sense goes off. 2) You are sitting in an area on the map frequently shot at by arty. 3) You are not moving. 4) Arty has shot at you or someone by you 40 seconds ago. 5) He is probably aiming at you because, l like the whiny fucking retard you are, you are still in the arty kill box.

 

4:00 Oh my fucking god, this piece of shit is wandering around kill areas frequently preaimed at by arty and is fucking shocked, SHOCKED that his carefully edited screen grabs shows him getting hit by arty.

 

But fucking wait, what is the most common complaint about arty? That it "ONE SHOTS EVERYONE ALL THE TIME". Well fuck, must of the shots of the whiny bastard getting hit by arty aren't one shot kills. That's because anti arty whiners are useless, self-important little cocks who are also liars.

 

5:00. Oh, now the cunt is whining about XVM sniping. Hey dipshit. XVM was devoloped by the same fucking "unicums" who wanted to have an advantage killing "pubbies". Now the fucking self important shits are braying like gelded donkeys when "the pubbies" use XVM to their advantage

 

TOO FUCKING BAD!!!!

 

@ 5:30 Oh my fucking God. This piece of garbage doesn't even know the correct use of game technology. Hey shit for brains. "ONE SHOT" isn't being finished off when half or more of your hit points are drained away from 1, 2 or 20 previous hits. "ONE SHOT" means just that. You were fucking hit by "ONE SHOT" which drains away all of your hit points which is often caused by an ammo rack detonation. Seriously, this piece of trash is whining that an arty can finish him off when he's at low hit points?http://www.imfdb.org/images/d/d1/PvtB_03.jpg

 

5:45 Oh, now the stat padding piece of garbage is whining about arty not having enough hit points that he can farm at the end of the game? At this point, if I were WoT, I'd scrub his account. Why are pieces of garbage like this allowed to have an input in the game? Who is this nobody?

 

8:00 I can tell this bastards problem. He's the type of player who statpads by "Using his pubbies as cover" since he is show to be frequently parked behind his allies. HAVOK used to brag about this tactic all the time and had how to videos. The trouble is, when you are hiding behind "your pubbies" you are placing yourself in the arty kill box because arty is going to focus on the stationary target away from the action and not the tanks in a scrum because arty - well, most arty - doesn't want to hit their own players. Seriously, this moron has no idea how the fucking game is played and what arty players pre-aim for. Oh, and he has another XVM whine about arty following him around the map where - TOO FUCKING BAD - you bastards were the one who invented and bragged about XVM and pad your XVM stats.

 

9:00 Seriously, look how this piece of shit plays. He has run from the hill on and is watching his teammates die when he is in a top tier tank at 2/3s hit points. This fucker is so far back he can't even hit the enemy tanks coming. 

 

Fuck this guy. Fuck this guy to hell.

 

Wow. Get a load of this guy.

 

"Well I think alpha should be lowered and rate of fire increased... Aaahhh. I'm the first person to ever say this."

 

Fuck you moron. I've been saying this for three years along with the other arty defenders. But fucking cunts like you keep advocating that arty be nerfed into oblivion - which it has - and yet you craptards still camp in the same places and still bleat like a castrated sheep every time you get hit by arty.

 

11:30 HAVE ARTILLERY ONLY SHOOT AI TANKS? Is this moron fucking shitting me? Hey numnuts. How about fucking YOU only shoot AI tanks since it is glaringly fucking obvious that you don't give a shit about a good game or the other 14 players on your team, let alone the fact that the 15 players on the other side are also trying to win. No, all you fucking care about is your stats and having the game dumbed down to the point where you can stat pad your way to a 95 percent winrate by removing every fucking variable or challenge in the game.

 

I'm done with that video.

[Donward]

What do we all think about this?

 

 

21 seconds in to the How to Fix Gold Ammo.

 

Oh, well, that is easy. Allow it so every player can purchase gold ammunition for "silver" credits.

 

Oh fucking wait! That's how it already is in place in the game. Well, I guess I won't need to waste 19 minutes and 4 seconds more of my life listening to this fucktard bleat about his useless opinions.

 

Do people whine about this anymore? I mean seriously, whining about "Gold" rounds is so 2012 when Clans who owned land in Clam Wars abused the system by spamming gold in regular matches because they got more gold than they could possibly ever use from their clan owning land. Sure, there were some pay-to-play types who spent real money on gold rounds but who fucking cares? Their money made it so I can play the game for (mostly) free. 

 

I use gold rounds all the time and I rarely run a premium account. Like most folks, I'll have five or ten premium rounds loaded (which I pay for with credits) and use them in those gotta-make-a-shot moments to reset the base (although I use HE for this too) or to finish off a hard top tier tank that is near death or when the game is really on the line and there are only one or two of us left and the difference between winning and losing more than pays for the credits it takes to replenish the premium rounds.

 

The issue is, yet again, fucking Unicums who are butthurt that the average pubbie can hurt them. Whenever I'm in the game, the people bleating and whining about "LOL GOLD SCRUB" are fuckers who have played tens of thousands of games and who are using "gold" themselves.

 

Edit: I skipped ahead. Yep, this guy is literally whining that pubs are now allowed to kill "good" players because back in the old days, Clan players "earned" their gold in Clam Wars and this made it OK to use it while most players didn't want to spend money on gold. Oh, then he lied about clan players never using gold rounds in public matches because they were so pure and honorable.

 

Fucking lying, elitest piece of shit.

[LostCosmonaut]

I've never actually seen decent players whine about gold, it's always the shitters with 30,000 battles and a 45% win rate (they probably also own every premium tank ever sold).

[SuperComrade]

I think premium ammo is one of the more negative features of the game, but removing/rebalancing it is going to be a huge effort. And honestly, I dislike artillery more.

[Donward]

If it needs to be "fixed" just put a limit on the number of "gold" rounds a tank can carry in a match which forces players to make the tactical decision when and where to use them.

[SuperComrade]

I think one of the few things War Thunder Ground Forces does right is make other ammunition types a lot more situational (stock APHE usually >>> APCR/APDS/HEAT if it can penetrate)

Except now APDS and APCR are almost completely useless, but that's another can of worms...

[Donward]

I've never actually seen decent players whine about gold, it's always the shitters with 30,000 battles and a 45% win rate (they probably also own every premium tank ever sold).

 

That's about right. It's about the silliest thing you can whine about in the game. About half the time I see is "OMG, you used GOLD to kill a Wolverine" or some similar thin-skinned vehicle. 

 

Yeah. Because the guy is going to UNLOAD his premium round just to reload a standard AP round to kill you.

 

I think one of the few things War Thunder Ground Forces does right is make other ammunition types a lot more situational (stock APHE usually >>> APCR/APDS/HEAT if it can penetrate)

Except now APDS and APCR are almost completely useless, but that's another can of worms...

 

It's one of the things that WoT could do right with historical campaigns or whatever. But all of their attempts to expand the game past the standard pub match have been a disaster.

[Tied]

Im a pretty bad player who rarely uses gold because im stubborn enough to think i can hit weakspots 

[EnsignExpendable]

The only time when I regularly used gold was when I was in a Hotchkiss and saw another Hotchkiss. Good times.

[Vanagandr]

I'm a decent player who uses gold constantly to farm stats

[EnsignExpendable]

Pah, who needs stats, I play for fun *sits for 45 seconds in queue, dies in half that time* See, fun!

[Bronezhilet]

If somebody starts to whine about you using gold, just reply with "But did it help me win?". Usually shuts them up nicely.

 

 

Also, fuck arty and fuck everybody who defends it. I wouldn't classify it as OP, because it's not. It's fucking broken. It's fun neither for the arty player, nor for his target. Whenever I play arty (which is almost never nowadays) I'm tearing my hair out because a crapton of my shots miss. And when I play normal tanks, well, I get blapped because I should stop camping in the middle of Proho, right? Of course arty missed the first five shots on me, but since I only felt the fun-ruining sixth shot, I'm mad. But no, according to people it's totally okay to have a dice-roll mechanic to arbitrarily ruin other people's battles. "But Bronezhilet!", I hear you cry, "tanks can ammorack you as well, it's the same as arty!". No it is not.

1. It requires LOS.

2. It requires actual aiming.

3. Ammoracks with one ammorack hit are incredibly rare.

4. It can happen to anyone, by anyone.

 

Arty is also why people complain about XVM stats. Do I get focussed by normal tanks? Probably. Do I notice? Rarely. But whenever arty's after your ass, you fucking notice. Sure, whatever, 80% of his shots miss. But the 20% that's going to hit is going to ruin my day. And there is nothing I can do about it, except hide behind a big-ass rock or a house for the rest of the match. And guess what, that ruins my fun too.

Seriously, I have had battles where I had to hide behind a house for the whole match because arty outright refused to switch targets. I notice arty shells falling next to me, so I hide behind a house. I wait 30 seconds to let arty switch targets. I take a quick peek and sure enough, arty. So I wait a full minute. Peek again, and sure enough, arty. (Yes, they did have a nicely concealed spotter). But in the meantime my team is winning because their arty doesn't give a shit about winning. "OH I MUST KILL THE HIGHEST RATED PLAYER ON THEIR TEAM, SURELY WE WILL WIN", he thinks, while my team stomps his team because the arty on my team actually knows what they're doing. GEE, I SURELY HAD FUN THIS MATCH, SITTING STILL WHILE MY TEAM WINS.

 

And my WN8 isn't even that great.

 

No, I don't use XVM stats. Fuck that. I judge prio-targets on the fly and on basis of actual information, instead of bullshit non-relevant numbers accumulated over years. It's simply the direct opposite of that one famous quite by Sun Tzu. You think you know the enemy (because you know his stats), but you actually don't know the enemy because that XVM number isn't his actual skill level. The fuck do I care about how somebody played the past few years, I care about how he plays right now, in this very battle. I don't care about the previous one. I don't care about the next one. I care about the one here and now. Who gives a shit about the unicum in the Tiger 2 while there's a 400 WN8 E100 next to him. If that E100 is going to pen me, I'm fucked. I don't give a shit about that puny Tiger 2. What's he gonna do? Sit on me? Who gives a shit about that 400 WN8? He still has a gun, and that gun can do a fuckton of damage. A common argument is this: "But what if there are two identical tanks next to each other, shooting you?!". That never happens, get the fuck out.

 

If you want to know getting focussed feels, go play in an ultra-rare tank. No, not the CW reward tanks, those aren't rare. I'm talking shit like the Pz V/IV, ISU-130 and T95E2 and the likes. If you see two tier 8 tanks yoloing down the hill towards your shitty tier 6 ultra-rare tank, you know they don't give a flying fuck about winning or dying. They just want to fucking kill you. Yes, I have actually had people trying to yolo through my team to get to my Pz V/IV, just to kill me. And I'd laugh my ass off while pulling back to behind my teammates and watching them get blown apart.

 

On the EU server we've actually had people banned because they were in good clans. Pubbies reported them because "He's in FAME, he must be hacking". WG EU's reply? "Switch clans". I WISH I WAS JOKING, BUT THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENED. MULTIPLE TIMES.

 

 

 

 

Fucking useless.

[Sturgeon]

Bronez, at one point arty was an important stalemate breaker, although this does not appear to be the case anymore.

[Sturgeon]

Also, lol buttmad.

[Bronezhilet]

Bronez, at one point arty was an important stalemate breaker, although this does not appear to be the case anymore.

Way back when yes. 3-4 years ago nobody whined about arty. Shit, we even took arty to CW on maps that are regarded as absolutely terrible arty maps nowadays.

 

But then they implemented fucking accuracy changes and whatever the fuck they did with the accuracy. It was great for normal tanks, but it fucked arty.

 

 

Also, lol buttmad.

I'm mad, yes. I don't give a flying fuck about arty being in the game. Heck, every few games you'll hear my whine about there *not* being arty to shoot camping and/or hull-down tanks. Imo the game needs a mechanic like that. But not like this, not like this at all. Is Armored Warfare better? Slightly. Arty actually has to watch out for other arties, and they won't wreck your tank with one shot. They're annoying, yes, but not hahfuckyou-annoying. And that incoming arty indicator was the worst fucking ever. Like, who the fuck thought it was a nice idea to come up with a heyyou'regettingfuckedsoon-indicator? Most tanks are too slow to properly avoid the shot anyway. It's nothing more than a sign you're going to lose a few hundred HP.

 

He's on par with the WG dude that puts rocks inside bushes on every fucking map. There's only one worse person in the gaming industry, and that's the fucker that puts cliffs inside bushes. I'M LOOKING AT YOU, SOUTH COAST.

[Bronezhilet]

A good start to fix arty would be to remove HE penetrations. It would be a pretty huge fix. I've had fucking French 'low damage' arties fucking pen roofs of my mediums to do ~1250 damage. How the fuck is that normal?

The next step should be to change what I call "damage projection" (I have no idea if it's an actual term. But who cares, it is now). When I see a big TD I know what he can do to me. Sure he does 1100 damage, but I know he will do ~1100 damage. I can take that into account. If I have 1300 HP he can kill me with one shot. It's unlikely, but possible. He's been aiming at me for a good second or 10 now, so he's unlikely to miss. With his 300 pen he's unlikely to bounce. So when I go around the corner, I will take ~1100 damage, but I'll most likely survive.

 

This is not possible with arty. He might hit, or he might miss, who knows. He might do a lot of damage when he hits, or he might not, who knows. He might do a lot of damage with a miss, or he might do nothing, who knows. He might kill half my crew, or he might not, who knows. I simply have no idea what's going to happen when I round the corner, it's a complete dice roll. And there's nothing him and I can do about it. It'll be amazing when I can actually take into account the damage arty is (most likely) going to do to me. This would tie in with actually scaling damage to tier, as opposed to having a former top tier arty as a normal tier 8 mm tank. What the actual shit. A thing that was implemented to damage tier 10s and had tier 10 matchmaking is now a normal tier 8 'designed' to damage tier 8s. Of course its damage wasn't lowered because that would make arty players mad. And we wouldn't like that, would we? On top tiers its fucking arbitrary what's going to happen. The difference between tier 8 and tier 10 arty is, for the receiving player, zilch. Both have a change to completely ruin his day. Almost no other tank has that capability! An E100 is going to laugh at an IS-3. Or a King Tiger. Or a T-44. Or a STA-2. Or whatever. He's going to maybe be scared a little by the big tier 8 TDs, but hey, that's what TDs do. And the only one that actually does damage outside of its tier is the ISU-152. But if that E100 sees an M40 on the enemy team, he'll be scared, because who knows how much damage the M40 will do to him?

[Vanagandr]

The thing is arty is actually good for stopping camping in organized play, but in pub matches, the thing that stops camping is that camping isn't a viable strategy. So Cent AXs driving through the city on Fisherman's Bay, beware, because the anti-camping protection that spent ten minutes camping that street, firing at literally nothing else the entire game, is going to teach you why you should never have left the base.

[Collimatrix]

Arty as a whole is underperforming on average, but the variance in its performance is enormous.  This is especially the case at high tiers.

 

The +-25% damage function isn't completely like, Kansas flat, but we'll say it's Keira Knightly flat.  The central tendency is not especially pronounced.  On top of that, HE damage is highly dependent on the distance the shell falls from the target.  So the difference between a roof-penetrating one shot kill and a fuckall is a roll of the dice, which the player has no control over.

 

Another, often overlooked, issue is that +-25% means that higher damage guns will suffer more variance, because within a tier tanks have similar DPM.  +-25% on a higher amount of damage is more variance, and a higher damage gun will usually be balanced to have less DPM.  This means that there are fewer shots per match in high alpha guns to average out inconsistencies, so higher alpha vehicles are higher variance in general.  Artillery is of course the most extreme example of this.

 

I have no clever solution to the current situation, but I would say that in general all artillery does right now is add randomness to the player experience.  

[Donward]

I'm hardly ever killed by arty and it's not because I'm camping, it's because I'm aggressively heading to spots on the map to fight which gets me under the arty umbrella. Plus having played arty for about 5-8 percent of my matches, I know the tendencies that average arty players - and I'm very much average in my arty - tend to pre-aim. 

 

What is amazing is that with all of the attention and hate focused on arty, players will play the exact same way, and go to the exact same spots on the map regardless of whether there are zero, one, two or five arty on the other side of the map. And they'll do so regardless if the arty player(s) are scrub 43 percenters or a 60 percent winrate unicum.

 

One major annoyance that I have is that WoT has nerfed arty so much because of the bleating from anti-arty types that it has destroyed the counter arty game.

 

With how bad the accuracy is and how slow the reload is in arty it make zero sense trying to counter snipe enemy arty players. Not when the playerbase is made up of literal retards who will sit in one spot and get pounded one, two, three times or more by your arty. For the arty player, your goal is to kill or chip away at the hitpoints of the enemy tomatoes before the enemy arty chips away at yours terribad players.

 

The addition of ground and terrain effects has been an issue too. I think terrain effects are a good thing. But what this has done is remove the ability of YOLO scouts like the T-50-2 (which has been removed) from rushing into enemy lines and lighting up enemy arty in the first minute of the game. But you had too many whiny Unicum cunts bitch about "bouncing a T-50-2" and the tank's obviously fake clown car mechanics that they removed it for the piece of garbage MT-25.  

 

Finally, we are at the stage in the game's lifespan where a lot of absolutely terrible players have failed their way to top tier where you see 40-43 percent winrate players rolling around in E-100s or whatever and not contributing anything. I play on the West Coast server and you see them due to the low population where the same names of the same terrible players will play Tier X tanks and camp or do nothing and the games are decided on what MM has decided to curse whatever random team they're put on. 

 

It's one of the many reasons why I will never play a Tier X tank. And I am to the point where I'm this close to giving up on Tier 9 tanks as well. Because the mid-tier matches are so much more fun, mobile and dynamic. Where the high tier matches are filled too often with people to scared to move because they can't afford their repair bills and are scared of having 1500-2000 hit points blown off by an arty or a double-bushed camping TD.

[Vanagandr]

What is amazing is that with all of the attention and hate focused on arty, players will play the exact same way, and go to the exact same spots on the map regardless of whether there are zero, one, two or five arty on the other side of the map. And they'll do so regardless if the arty player(s) are scrub 43 percenters or a 60 percent winrate unicum.

Almost all the maps have three lanes that lead from green team to red team, and one of them useless. Any arty with a speck of pattern recognition knows where people are going to go, it's not because people out of habit to the same places for some arbitrary reason, it's because people can only reliably influence the battle from those places. Prokhorovka for example, the only places to reliably influence the battle are in the mid next to the tracks, and from the hill. You can be unspotted for as long as you like on the 1-2 line, but your contributions to the team are limited by the fact that you cannot support any other flank and cannot engage what is on your own flank. Steppes is the same way except that it has only one viable lane; only the east is a viable place to be. Sometimes a team might win quickly in the west, push, and take the cap, but nine times out of ten the game the west gets bogged down and spends the match waiting for the east to be decided. If you dive into the bowl in the east, then you've managed to probably avoid arty, but you can't influence the match until you leave the bowl (although you can have fun shooting whatever hulldowned tank is in front of you), and you'll have a hard time getting back out of the bowl to be useful without getting shot. And, of course, the east is composed of light hills and is totally open to arty, because encouraging players to not push or actively work towards winning is exactly what arty does. If the goal is winning, you have to suffer the risk of being one-shot by someone you simply cannot avoid or retaliate against until the match is won. XVM sniping and RNG can be irritating, but the reason that arty is broken is because it punishes you for trying to influence the battle into your favor.

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

The upcoming patch sounds fun, tank drifting will make lights fun again, and you can flip your tank!

[CrashbotUS]

Woo..