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Sturgeon's House

N-L-M

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  1. Metal
    N-L-M reacted to Toxn in Competition: Californium 2250   
    *Casually chats about the weather after we 'happen' to bump into each other outside in the park (on a suitably windy day) until I'm certain that nobody else is nearby*
     
    I'm fully aware of that. Which is why my 133mm gun, which is what I'm actually putting on my tank right now, does 360mm from 2000m. Which most certainly can kill a Norman, and can probably kill an uparmoured one from a bit closer to even with full-bore stupidity rounds. If you look at my other gun (the 150mm piece) it is and was always optimised for HEAT and the AP round we lashed together barely punches through 200mm on the flat at distance. And even that took a painful redesign of the gun and its cartridge.
     
    I'm making other people aware of the minimum level of gun needed so they can go about their day unmolested and then say 'whoops, guess what we just happened to have lying about' when a certain someone succumbs to her increased stress levels and ever-harder-to-hide amphetamine addiction and we can all use finned sabot again.
     
    Barring that, a 122mm gun slinging our most up-to-date tandem HEAT-FS can do 200/500mm. Meaning that it will go through a Norman with bolt-on ERA like butter until such time as the perfidious Cascadians add in a NERA interlayer.
     
    Finally; if you run the numbers on a fully upgraded Norman (ie: with the bolt-on RHA removed and NERA/ERA added all over the shop) you'll find that nothing short of 550+mm of KE or something like a 190mm diameter tandem HEAT shell has any hope of killing it from the front. Which means that either you sling APFSDS and damn the consequences, or resign yourself to throwing artillery shells at the thing and hope that Her Serene Majesty won't notice that the turret got pulled off by explosive mass rather than any sort of armour piercing effect.
  2. Funny
    N-L-M reacted to Collimatrix in Competition: Californium 2250   
    *Looks around carefully to make sure that no auditors are in the room*

    *Checks the room carefully for SeaOrg bugs (which are easy to locate because they are clearly labeled "SeaOrg")*
     
    OK, just pointing out that if you make a gun that just barely meets Her Serene Majesty's requirements, it can't actually kill the Norman.  Her Gracious and Serene Majesty doesn't actually know anything about tanks.
     
    Per the OP, the Norman has 330mm of protection against KE, and per the final post from the previous competition, that was clearly intended as an interim and easily removable armor array to be used until a proper composite armor array could be supplied instead.
     
    For 330mm of penetration at combat distances with full caliber AP, you're looking at something a bit more powerful than the M58, and ideally with better-designed shells.
  3. Tank You
    N-L-M reacted to Xoon in Competition: Californium 2250   
    I might run with such a suspension design, seems more leak proof than a vane motor. 
     
    Honestly, I might be putting way to much time into the suspension unit, but hey, at least I know how pretty much all the hydropneumatic suspension units work in AFVs. 
  4. Metal
    N-L-M reacted to Lord_James in Competition: Californium 2250   
    Update on the SH-1T: 
     
    Mock-up of turret
    Extended sponsons 
    gun created (and roughly placed within turret) 
     

     
     
    weight thus far is 48.27 Mg; length is 10.74m from barrel tip to rear storage; autoloader can fit 24 155mm x 800mm shells, but I designed it for 900mm long shells, so might fit 22 or so. 
     
    Turret Armor Cavities: 
     
    Front: 45mm RHA + 515mm array + 90mm JPA at 30o. 751mm LoS from dead front. 
    Front Sides: 45mm RHA + 255mm array + 63mm JPA. At 45o, LoS is 513mm (covers turret crew up to 60o). 
    Rear Sides: 35mm RHA + 101.5mm array + 45mm RHA. 257mm LoS at 45o. 
     
    Gun is the 155mm C4B Mod.3 naval cannon. The B version of the C4(x) is an L/44 (C4A is a L/52), and the Mod.3 is modified for army use. It has a bayonet locked barrel for quick changing, and can fire up to 900mm long projectiles, but the chamber is limited to 800mm long propellant charges. Operates at 61,000 psi (421 MPa) and has a 500mm recoil stroke. 
     
    Crew is estimated at 5: 
     
    Driver 
    Loader 
    Gunner
    Commander
    Ordinance operator / Assistant loader (I plan to add a remote 107mm mortar, which this crewperson would use) 
     
    I found that I can increase head room / lower the floor if I remove the 6th pair of road wheels, revise the floor armor,  and drop the autoloader into the space. Should give back ~100mm. 
     
     
    To do: 
     
    H. Mantle armor 
    I. Add spaces for stuff to go into sponsons 
    J. The engine and transmission 
    K. Turret roof armor 
    L. Additional weapons (coax, 107mm mortar, commander armament, etc.) 
  5. Funny
    N-L-M reacted to Toxn in Competition: Californium 2250   
    I don't have access to my primary computer for a while, so I've been dicking around on my laptop:

    This is Big Bouy, which has two AVDS engines, a 200mm gun, and an exceedingly low likelihood of being a sensible weight.
  6. Tank You
    N-L-M reacted to Xoon in Competition: Californium 2250   
    Been refining the suspension, currently done with the suspension arm:

     
    Next on the agenda is the suspension mount:

    Currently work is progress. 
     
     
     
     
    This is all I am going to do today, its waaay to late:

  7. Tank You
    N-L-M reacted to LoooSeR in What are we playing?   
    After all that Far Cry spam it is obvious that review is coming. 15 years after release, i'm between "retro" and "modern" with this one.
     
       Review of Far Cry.

     
       This art cover basically explains what 2004 Far Cry was all about - action game set in jungles of a tropical island where player will sneak to places and wreck havok with explosions and lots of bullets. Far Cry was developed by Crytek (all others were done by other studios) and it was their first game. FC is a first person shooter set in near future, where main hero (Jack Carver) gets "involved" in Dr. Krieger's experiments with creating mutants. He should fight through organisation of ruthless mercenaries and mutated creatures to get to Dr. Krieger and get out of island. Far Cry was very well received by journalists and by players when it came out, it was released in same year as Half-life 2 and DooM 3 but managed to avoid direct competition by being first to release (early summer IIRC). Still, i found it to be better than DooM 3, in some parts - better than HL2 (heresy!)
     
       Visuals
       For 2004 Far Cry had top-notch graphics and tech in general, even compared to DooM 3 and HL2. Over a 1 km render distance of it's gorgeous jungles, big number of objects on a screen per frame, extensive use of physics engine, partially destructible terrain, dynamic lighting and shadow casting, water effects/reflections, bump mapping, use of shaders, drivable vehicles with working suspension simulation, build-in editor with ability to seamlessly play level directly from editor. All this allowed Far Cry to impress players back in 2004 and in some areas it was ahead of DooM 3's Id tech engine and HL2's Source.
       Althout game itself didn't used this tech potential for 100%, majority of indoor levels have bland art direction (just grey concrete/metal combined with brown colors) and there are very few indoor locations that are memorable. Outdoor parts of Far Cry are pretty good, but i think most of this positive feeling towards jungles are result of humans being hardwired to like nature.
     

     
       Here is a "vertical slice" of Far Cry's visuals. 
     
       A bit more on other features of Cryengine shown in Far Cry:
     
     
       Gameplay
       Far Cry is linear action game with sandbox elements - levels are generally linear, but they are broken into "arenas" connected sometimes by more than 1-2 paths between each other. Player usually can choose how he will approach each place/camp/etc - from which angle, with what tactics and so on. FC AI supports stealth, hardcore action and other playstyles - player is free to choose how to deal with baddies and all parts of Far Cry's gameplay feels natural.... until we get to indoor maps.
       All player freedom is almost completely forgotten by level designers when they were making indoor levels. They feel like CoD/generic shooty game levels. Think of 2nd part of Crysis, how different and limiting it was for players after great amount of freedom of action in first part. Far Cry is basically that, but indoor levels are mixed with outdoor, so this is not as much "concentrated" problem as with Crysis.
       When outside, number of game mechanics are used to make things easier for a player - gamer have detection meter, which will alert player if he is being spotted (even by enemies player never saw), binoculars with build in microphone (allow to hear dialogues/sounds far away) and "tagging" system that puts markers on your radar of enemies spotted through binos and their condition (triangle show where they are facing, color - their "alert" level). Enemies can be tagged once and then radar will magically track tagged enemy actions in real time until he is dead. IMO binoculars are kind of cheat, but you can see that after FC many other open world games used same system (MGS5 for example).
       Gameplay variety come mostly from terrain, type and placement of enemies, avaliable weapons and how player wants to approach given situation. Player can carry up to 4 guns, almost all weapons in Far Cry have very different use (each gun have it's own + and -, they dictate how and in what sitaution it is effective). AI is mostly not scripted (with exception of reinforcements and vehicles attacks/car chases), so doing something in Far Cry may not result in exactly same reaction from enemies everytime you do it, which gives it replayability and a small risk of things not goign as planned even if you do same actions.
     
       Here is "vetical slice" of gameplay in Far Cry:

     
     
       Plot
       In Far Cry plot is generic - evil doctor Evilness is working on evil green goo that turns living creatures into evil monsters and you need to fight evil mercs to get to evil doctor and fight him in evil volcano. Positive thing that during actual gameplay plot is not getting much in the way. There are few boss fights against main baddies (like.. 4 of them that i remember), 1 of which was done by accidental grenade kill, 1 was ended with single bullet (kek). 2 others were rather standart "MY HP BAR IS BIGGER THAN YOURS!" type of bullet-spongy boss fights. 
       All "characters" in Far Cry are forgettable and in fact i don't remember name of radio voice that was talking mission objectives at me whole game and who turned out to double cross us or something like this.
     

     
     
       Sound
       Usually i don't bother with it, but in this case i noticed that Crytek cheaped out on sound. Lots of stock sounds used for guns and enviroment. Sound of walking through bushes is basically somebody rubbing plastic bag. Overal nothing bad that make your ears reconsider their current owner, but not exactly very immersive or high-quality. 
     
       AI and enemies
       Far cry gameplay lays rather strongly on AI because of it unscripted nature and freedom of action of player, so it is worth mentioning that for 2004 AI in FC was one of the best in "AAA" shooter. AI in general feels like a multiplayer arena shooter bots. In game files you even can turn on ability of mercs to pick up health and armor (although AI don't have needed code to actively hunt for them AFAIK). All enemies have vision system and hearing system that detects actions/objects, they don't magically see player through objects and know exactly where he is (HL2 *cough*), so all decision that AI takes are based on what it can collect using vision and hearing systems and what he remember. All this makes each AI agent to be percieved (at least by me, not sure about rest of players) as separate decision-making entity, instead of script-following mindless actors like in CoDs. Hell, even their movement system is same as player's, thats why AI sometimes can get to places where AI isn't supposed to go just by using abilities of their "bodies" (i'm not speaking about glitching through, in fact i never saw them to glitch through things) AI in Far Cry can make mistakes, can be confused in way that can be possible only for enemies that don't have full information about game world state.
     
     
       Mutants for the most part are pretty boring, they are dumb and straight forward. Fatties are big HP pool and big damage, but slow, monkyes are quick and have lower HP and so on. Several of them have guns, 2 of them are not as boring as others - 2 humanoid mutants. One can turn invisible, another can jump long distances (but only on scripted places).
     
       Mercs are more interesting and better developed enemies, with more nuances to learn and use. First is that there are multyply types of mercs AI "characters" such as Cover, Scout, Rear Guards, Guards (indoor), Leader, Specialist, Grunt and so on. Each have different behavior, like Scout trying to sneak, flank player (uses bushes, "chain" them to get to your flanks and similar), while Cover like to... cover others mercs using... covering fire. lol. AI also can dodge your aiming circle (only certain types of enemies or if this ability was turned on by level designer for specific baddies) and move rather often (IIRC in editor it is "energy" rating). AI also can find cover pretty easily in jungles even without waypoints/cover nodes (for indoor parts waypoints and cover nodes are mandatory). 
     
       Interesting thing is that those AIs when assembled in groups will perform differently, but as a part of a group. For example Rear guards (from what devs wrote in editor manual) will try to take positions in rear of their group. Cover guys work well with other cover mercs (when pushign forward they can perform bounding overwatch) or with Scouts, covering scout's flanking attempt. So when in groups those guys have level of synergy. Indoor guards are closest to multiplayer bots - they are moving around frequently, running long distances, and because of body armor and helmets they can survive some beating to live longer than usual grunts and show off some of their abilities.    
     
       Most interesting AI type is Leader unit, who will command mercs in his squad. This commander works outdoors, that is probably why you don't see many of them indoors. They understand flanks, can move parts of his team (2-3 mercs) to attack player. Mercs behavior changes when under command of Leader - they are no longer move around randomly, move in groups, provide suppressive or covering fire (including at last known position), they can start to fire at "suspicious" sounds and so on. Although squad behavior is not fully-realised, they are areas not covered by it (which should have been, but i suspect it is part of unfinished AI abilities, leftovers of which can be found in code).
     
     
       Overal AI was designed to approach wide number of situations, thats why their overal tactics was "generalised" to fit different geometry of levels/layout of area. This lead to situations when AI act not too smart - this "generlised" tactics don't fit every situation possible and don't take into account some of things that can make a some difference. Their searching for player routine is also not very good - go to LKP and look/walk around randomly after SWAT 3 looks kind of dumb. 
     

       Let's fuck up player's day! 
     
     
       Conclusion
       Even 15 years later Far Cry can still generate fun gameplay. I installed a mod to freshen gameplay (changes in weapons, damage and AI) and still play it. Far Cry have better gameplay (at least for me) than both HL2 and Doom3, and as time showed "attack a camp of bad guys in sandbox enviroment" games have their apeal because of players relative freedom. Far Cry's design was used to build Crysis few years later. This type of games have a flaw that some players don't like - you need to create your own fun by trying different things and not many players like to do that. But i would still recommend to try it out as it is fun (with appropriate difficulty chosen).
     
  8. Tank You
    N-L-M got a reaction from Lord_James in Competition: Californium 2250   
    Looking good, everyone!
  9. Tank You
    N-L-M reacted to Lord_James in Competition: Californium 2250   
    More picks of the SH-1T, now with road wheels and 2 new armor cavities! 
     
     
    Weight is up to 35.86 Mg, with the suspension and wheels taking up 8.6 Mg by themselves (steel torsion bars with 850mm diameter aluminum wheels). 
     
    New Armor cavities: 
     
    6. Engine Compartment Roof: 30mm RHA + 60mm array + 30mm JPA at 7o. 992mm LoS 
    7. Crew Compartment Roof: 25mm RHA + light NERA + 36mm JPA. might reverse angle the NERA or change the material, as I'm getting disappointingly low numbers for roof protection. 
     
    I also raised the crew compartment floor, so no one can trip over the autoloader, though this reduces the head room from 1.45m to 1.26m. 
     
    near future: 
     
    A. mock up turret and carousel loader. 
    B. extend the sponsons backwards to make space for a rear idler, additional cover for the rear door, and rear aesthetics. 
    C. place ammo racks (the current front space can fit 42 charges). 
    D. armor arrays and side skirts. 
     
    later: 
     
    E. Upgrade kits 
    F. front dozer blade (a la T-72)
    G. alternate turrets/vehicles 
  10. Tank You
    N-L-M reacted to Xoon in Competition: Californium 2250   
    pft, who needs turrets anyways? 
     
     
    Anyways, completed my suspension unit:

     
    If anyone is interested in knowing how the suspension works, feel free to ask. 
  11. Metal
    N-L-M reacted to Xoon in Competition: Californium 2250   
    Just to prove that it actually fits the crew. The dummy is 1,8m tall, so a bit taller than the California standard. 
    Its actually surprisingly roomy, more roomy than I expected. 
  12. Tank You
    N-L-M got a reaction from Sturgeon in Competition: Californium 2250   
    It does.
    The mass efficiency numbers given in the OP are the true numbers, the TE numbers are calculated via density.
     
  13. Tank You
    N-L-M got a reaction from That_Baka in Competition: Californium 2250   
    It does.
    The mass efficiency numbers given in the OP are the true numbers, the TE numbers are calculated via density.
     
  14. Tank You
    N-L-M got a reaction from Lord_James in Competition: Californium 2250   
    It does.
    The mass efficiency numbers given in the OP are the true numbers, the TE numbers are calculated via density.
     
  15. Funny
    N-L-M reacted to Xoon in Competition: Californium 2250   
    Its seems the new gun wont fit. It also looks hilariously out of proportion compared to the rest of the vehicle. 
     
     
  16. Metal
    N-L-M reacted to T___A in Competition: Californium 2250   
    Attention trans ladies, natal-ladies, and other, equally valid genders

     
    It is I, Her Gracious and Serene Majesty Queen Diane Feinstein the VIII, I have been keeping a close eye on this competition and frankly I think we can do better. The Dianetic People’s Republic of California is, after all, the most diverse country in the world. Our diversity quota ensure that only one cishet white male is allowed on your design team. Anyway, I think that we aim for the stars with this new tank and should have a gun that accomplishes that. I am adjusting the requirements: The gun must use traditional AP rounds. Sub-caliber rounds limit our ability to develop high-explosive rounds which, is the main ammo type of our tanks. One of my aides informs me that full-bore AP is more effective against NERA. Also the phallic structure of sub-caliber rounds enforces toxic heteromasculinity. The requirements for this new gun should be around 8 inches of penetration at 1.25 miles at 1200 minutes of an arc. That way this tank can defeat anything those Cascadians Chuds can throw at us.
     
     
     
     
  17. Metal
    N-L-M got a reaction from Xoon in Competition: Californium 2250   
    Nope, we're ignoring that.
  18. Tank You
    N-L-M got a reaction from Xoon in Competition: Californium 2250   
    What do you mean?
     
    Will set of ATGMs and RPGs at the stated standoff.
  19. Tank You
    N-L-M got a reaction from Xoon in Competition: Californium 2250   
    10mm for the light threats.
    Yes.
    Yes. Counts as the equivalent metal (steel, HH or aluminum) thickness, at a 30% weight discount vs light threats and HEAT. Vs heavy KE threats it has a ME of 1 compared to its base metal, and a TE of 0.7. (And an areal density 0.7 of its base metal of course).
     
    Ribbed armor is considered offensive.
  20. Tank You
    N-L-M reacted to Toxn in Competition: Californium 2250   
    Brick jr's loading is via an autoloader running from a conveyor on the floor (the ammo rack is built like a vending machine, and dispenses propelling charges and warheads onto the conveyor from 5 vertical stacks) to a vertical rail that punches the warhead and charge in sequentially. The entire assembly is modelled, if roughly, to check clearances.
  21. Tank You
    N-L-M reacted to Toxn in Competition: Californium 2250   
    Brick junior gained weight thanks to my poor grasp of maths, and had to be put on a diet:


    All-up weight is now 63 tonnes fully loaded, but the ammunition capacity has been lowered to 30 rounds (20 in the primary ammo rack and 10 in the secondary).
     
    I'm at the point where I have to decide whether it's worth slimming it down more, going for a bigger engine or starting on Brick senior. With a stretched AVDS-derived mill the all-up weight will probably be close to 70 tonnes, but the power available jumps to 1205hp. This should provide enough grunt to push over the minimum power-to-weight requirements (Brick jr is currently a hair under). On the other hand, it might be worth stretching out properly and getting that 200mm gun I've been wanting to throw into this competition...
     
    Edit: here are the rounds for the 150mm smoothbore gun:
     
    - Common: all rounds use a seperate tubular 150x1000mm propelling charge section (semi-combustible with a aluminium or steel case stub). Some rounds include extra propellant in the warhead section. Reload rate is approximately 15 seconds per round.
     
    - HEAT-FS (HEDP, steel liner): 545mm RHA penetration, 35kg, 950m/s.
    - HEAT-FS (single, copper liner): 610mm RHA penetration, 35kg, 950m/s.
    - HEAT-FS (tandem, copper liners, high-precision cones + improved pressing): 250/700mm RHA penetration, 35kg, 950m/s.
    - HE-FS: 60mm RHA penetration, 43kg, 850m/s.
    - APFSDS (maraging steel): 375mm RHA penetration at muzzle, 5.1kg penetrator, 10.4kg total, 1900m/s (note: due to excessive barrel wear, this round is restricted to a maximum of 3 per combat load).
    - APFSDS (maraging steel with 20x21mm tungsten carbide tip): 410mm RHA penetration at muzzle, 5.2kg projectile, 10.4kg total, 1900m/s (note: due to excessive barrel wear, this round is restricted to a maximum of 3 per combat load).
  22. Tank You
    N-L-M reacted to LoooSeR in Communist tracked boxes with pancake turrets: don't you dare to confuse GLORIOUS T-80 battle tank with Kharkovite T-64 tractor that doesn't work.   
    Kharkovite invention - 64.
    How to efficiently waste resources of Soviet Union.
     
       Finally, we came to T-64 section. I know that it is first specific tank type related post in the thread when you scroll it, but only after T-72 and T-80 section I am doing T-64 part, and for a reason. More information on this Kharkovite invention to describe it properly was demanded. A secret knowledge was needed for this task.
     
       Before going into the abyss of Kharkovite treachery, a holy blessing and protection of the spirits of ancestors was needed to survive this dirty trip. My destination was prospekt Stachek 47/Strikes Avenue 47, a holy place of birth of T-80, Kirovskiy factory location. My hand touched a factory wall and my lips gently whispered holy words of blessing to Glorious T-80, words of curses to terrible spawn of Morozov’s twisted mind, words of renunciation from opposite piston diesel engines. “Do you believe in gas turbines, young communist?” “Yes, I do believe in superiority of gas turbines, holy spirit of SKB-2 and Kirovskiy Factory”. Blessing was granted and tough trip started from old walls of a factory that saw Revolution and flames of Great Fatherland War.
       “Kharkovite scum of course tried to conceal their attempts to sabotage Soviet system” holy voice whispered in my mind. “You need to uncover their deceitful claims of superiority of T-64 and their vile fantasies of selling Soviet Rodina property and achievements of working class to rotting capitalist West” confidently said the voice. “Trying to uncover their lies by simply showing terrible results of their attempts to create a fighting machine for Soviet proletariat is not enough! You need to show their true promptings and their deceptive manipulations of people of Soviet Union and members of Communist Party!”.
       “KGB” i said to myself, “they were collecting information about all anti-Soviet elements, and maybe they managed to get some sort of information on Morozov’s sect, what they were doing”. Target now was clear for me.
     
       Museum of political history of Russia. It was located inside of an old Tsarist homestead, build for a ballerina (and a monarchist whore). This museum had a collection of documents showing that Soviets often knew exactly what anti-Soviet elements were saying during their secret meetings. But all displayed papers, yellow and worn out by flow of time, were about “intelligentsia” attempts to undermine Proletariat Revolution by their poisonous poems.
       I needed more. “My PutinTroll ID card may be useful here” my voice sounded enthusiastic. An inconspicuous staff door was found near museum wardrobe with clear sign of PutinTroll access system controlling it. My hand pulled out a small card from a pocket, with “Lenin Banner 2nd Special Chairborn Putinskaya Assault Keyboard Unit” clearly written on one side of that piece of cheap plastic. I didn’t knew what level of access was needed to get inside, but attempt was worth a risk. Card was inserted into device but door did not reacted. Red light was looking at me from card reader, coldly answering to my confusion. “Heh, strange that my card doesn’t work here. Museum staff access card is needed, for sure”. Sounds of steps distracted me from watching in anger at card reader. “What are you doing here” said security guard. “Was looking for a toilet, could find it anywhere, thought that there is maybe a bathroom for staff that I can use.” Guy gave me tired look, “first floor, left from the entrance”. I went down, so at least it would look like I was telling truth. “Maybe this old lady in checkroom have proper card?”. As it was summer time, there was nobody in checkroom, and old lady was drowsy. Perfect. Her card was sticking out of side pocket, and few seconds later it was in my hands. Thrilled and cautious in the same time, I went to other stairs, expecting that this corridor may connect them and have big room for storage or for service personnel of Kshesinskaya. Door with card reader confirmed this assumption. Card reader mechanism grabbed card that was inserted into it and a 2-3 second later opened metallic door.
     
       It was hard to see inside, as only light from hall, coming through doorway was only source of light here. Flashlight on my phone, made by Chinese communists and sold under South Korean capitalists brand was helpful here. Communist-made and Korean-sold flashlight revealed an old corridor with series of doors. “Kazakhstan” was written above a nearest door.
       “They are probably keeping documents here, divided by country, so when ordered by leadership, museum staff can put out or pull out from public part of museum documents with appropriate content. Don’t like country – put out bad docs about them” I told myself. “Need to find Ukraine”. Door was found, with almost no signs of wear. Piece of plastic managed to open it as well and a cool air hit me like a wall. Hundreds of shelves were visible in dim light of dying bulb. «This is excellent! Need to find a proper folder, though. This building is sure big, especially for a court ballerina”.
       After about an hour of searching a pack of folders with “Reports on Morozov’s group assemblies, for comrade Serov” written by a typewriter on it, was found. “This is it!”. I impatiently opened it, with hundreds of pages of text in typewriter font flashing before my eyes. “Everything is here!”
     
     
    “Committee of State Security under the Council of Ministers of the USSR. 1955, Decem...
    …..
    …..
    Secret…
    ….
    For comrade Serov…
    ….
    .. Morozov appears to periodically assemble a group of engineers from Kharkov on his property, where in private condition they exchange anti-Soviet ideas…
    … as source reported among those speeches Morozov expressed his wish to sabotage Soviet Army capabilities and spend resources of country ineffectively, which was met positively by attendees.

    [hand written]
    Put a device there, I need a tape of that before showing anything to comrade Khrushchev. Did Morozov lost his mind? Recordings of their speeches give to ...
    ...“
     
    “Committee of State Security under the Council of Ministers of the USSR. 1956 March...
    ….
    ...full transcript of those meetings is in Attachment 1, some excerpts:

    - Those Moskovites are crazy, they want to send a device into space on top of giant fueltank with gigantic rocket engine attached to that hideous device.
    - I wish it exploded during launch!
    - Maybe we can make it to..
    - We don’t have any rocketeers here, Mikola
    - Yeah. So what we can do to hurt Moscovite thieves? They are stealing our wealth, preventing us from becoming rich, like those bourgeoisie from Paris or London!
    - Majority of people here are engineers, and we managed to get inside of Commies weapon industry. We can make them spend their money on our inventions!
    - But we need to make them not work, you know, so those nuts will not destroy Paris or London, or we will not have a place to run after their payments!
    Laughing
    - I propose my idea to make a battle tank, we already discussed this, it should have a lot of advanced features so it will be easy to sell it to Army idiots, but we will make it unreliable enough so they would spend a lot on “fixing” those “problems”
    Laughing
    - This is how you plan to get a new dacha, Oleksiy?
    Laughing
    - They will spend a 5-year plan worth of money to make it at least work, but all this time they will not be able to attack better countries then their own!
    Laughing
    - Give me this horilka, Sasha
    - I sure like yours foreign tape recorder, where you got it?
    ….
    ….
    - Most sophisticated part of any vehicle is engine and suspension. We need to make them as bad as possible, but not too terrible, or they will just reject it.
    - Yeah, but we also can put more sophistication on this design. What we can make more complicated there?
    - Remember Heavy tanks competition? Several of those boxes had some sort of mechanized loading systems. Maybe we can make our own, but bigger and more complicated?

    - Let’s also make it steel-only armor! Taking into consideration that Westerners will adopt new and better weapons to the time when we will manage to “fix” all problems, tank armor will not be adequate and because of our over-optimization of weight and volume in our design, they will have hard time to modernize it! And again, this will ensure that will not able to launch any assault operations and start another world war, as our tanks would be always “not combat ready”
    - Yes, but just enough “not combat ready”, we will make it balance between “battle capable” and “not capable” so they will be trapped and chained by our design for many years in attempts to finally make it capable of spreading their stupidity!
    …”
     
    “Committee of State Security under the Council of Ministers of the USSR. 1956, April….
    …..
    Secret…
    ….
    For comrade Serov…
     
    … it appears that this group of dissidents have somebody in upper echelons of our Party, Ivan Alexandrovich. Further investigation can become a subject of political attention. A small excerpt from recorded speech during their recent meeting:

    - So what about your Patron in Communist party higher-ups?
    - He made a report on Joseph Stalin’s cult of personality of and the mass repressions few days ago. 2 years ago he gave to Ukrainian SSR Crimea, for those who did not understood what character I am speaking about. He is reliable enough for our plans.
    - Would he support our proposal for Soviet Army? Without his support somebody in Politburo can rather easily push us aside.
    - Yes, he would. We started work on new tank that we will push down Army throat, while we will make them want more of that! Generally we already gave this vehicle all we need, it is a matter of construction and fine-tunning it to be bad enough.
    - That would cost a lot of money for Communists, haha!
    - Not only that, but we will try to make our design to be unified tank of Soviet army, so other factories will produce it as well! Nobody will be able to compete with us!
    - Currently T-54 and T-55 are enough for Army, but as our Patron said, Army will be interested in new tank by early 60s. We have about 5-7 years before this project starts, so our group needs to be silent about this subject from now, especially after subject will become political.
    ….”
     
       “Khrushchev! It was him who helped to push T-64!” “T-64 wasn’t adopted by 1964, but serial production of first vehicles was already started. About 90 of them were made, and Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU dismissed him from the post of First Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU in 1964 as well! Probably after seeing how terrible this tank was, that was pushed by Khrushchev, they finally managed to attract more political figures on their side and throw Nikita out. They understood his Kharkovite treacherous nature and that's why he wasn't allowed to participate in political work! It all makes sense now!”
     
    T-64A - first Kharkovite to be adopted by Soviet Army and produced in numbers
    Probably because it work, sometimes


     
     
    T-64B - T-72 spirit is haunting Kharkovites
    Make a tank that work, damn Kharkovites!

     
     
     
     
    T-64BV - Conceal this tractor with explosives, maybe NATO will not notice how bad it is!
    Kharkovites last original creation!

       
     
     
  23. Tank You
    N-L-M reacted to LoooSeR in Communist tracked boxes with pancake turrets: don't you dare to confuse GLORIOUS T-80 battle tank with Kharkovite T-64 tractor that doesn't work.   
    T-64B section added.
    Only Kharkovite-64BV is left to cover.
    @Collimatrix
    @Scolopax
    @Bronezhilet
    @N-L-M
    @Zyklon
    @Lord_James
    @EnsignExpendable
  24. Tank You
    N-L-M reacted to Scav in Contemporary Western Tank Rumble!   
    Armour dimensions of the M1A1 in the American Heritage museum (made by a friend):
    Hull: 24" or 609.6mm to weldline, rumoured 4" plate behind that (101.6mm)
    (Quoting friend)
    Seems like there's some empty space there, or he could've missed something, but he agreed that LOS thickness was ~732mm.
     
    Turret cheek loader: 29" or 736.6mm perpendicular
    From front face to loader's hatch on outside: 78" (he had to hook the tape over, so -3" on the pic you see)  and from loader's hatch on inside to armour = 41", so turret cheek armour from front = 37" or 939.8mm.
     
    Turret cheek gunner: 29" or 736.6mm perpendicular, less angled than loader's side, no measurement to commander's hatch and inside to get overal thickness but we assumed  same inner plate thickness.
    (maybe the GPS wouldn't be able to fit if it was bigger?)
     
    So, hull of M1 (1980) was same thickness and turret most likely the same too (732mm LOS), so how come they gave turret higher protection values than hull?
    Seems a bit odd, CIA gave turret 400mm KE (on a turret variant, we don't know which) and 750mm CE, but hull generally gets values of 350mm KE and 750mm CE.....

    In any case, reference threat for XM-1 (FSED I think) was XM579E1 (simulating 115mm APFSDS):
    Penetration was estimated at 161mm @60° and 1470m/s (either PB or 500m ish).
    UK estimated XM-1 at 320-340mm, which coincides with the 115mm at 800-1200m requirement:
    As previously pointed out in this thread.
    This doesn't talk about the XM-1s before the FSED it seems (why would they talk about an outdated design?).
     
    So either CIA was talking about IPM1 turret ("long turret") or they somehow increased KE values for turret while keeping CE the same OR CIA was overestimating own armour?....
     
    Anyway,  BRL-1 or early versions of Chobham don't seem to be very good against KE relatively speaking, NERA part itself seems to do very little for KE, simulated ammo (XM579E1) isn't the best against composite materials or complex targets.
    Perhaps OG M1 only had ~350mm effective against KE on both hull and turret and IPM1 increased this to 400 or slightly higher, but I don't think that increasing the thickness of the turret with more NERA seems very efficient against KE.
    IPM1/M1A1 probably have below 470mm against KE on turret (XM579E1), but maybe more against old slug type APFSDS and definitely less against 80s long rods.
     
    This probably led to DU equipped M1s...... to compensate for relatively poor KE protection.
  25. Tank You
    N-L-M reacted to Zadlo in Competition: Californium 2250   
    My base so far - I'm thinking about enhancing fuel tanks but it may look ok.
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