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From what i hear Koalitsiya have interesting feature - propellant charges are smaller than usual, which mean that a single one can't give enough force for projectile to send it to needed distance (if target is not very close). Autoloader "form" complete propellant charge by "assembling" several "modular"/simple charges into one according to data from targeting computer.

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Hi,

 

My first post here.

 

I am absolutely fascinated by the Amarta, potentially the first successful MBT with an external gun mount. The ballistic protection, survivabilty and mobility are likely to be class leading. Firepower still an unknown, depending on the efficacy of the FCS.

 

The real question mark has to be about situational awareness, ergonomics and fightability. Situational awareness is the most difficult problem to solve. The crew are highly dependent on external optics and electronic sensors, The commander, now being low down in the hull of the tank, does lose some situational awareness. Even with effective electronics and optics, he is likely to suffer from kinesthetic orientation problems. The kind of technology incorporated in the auto-trackers used in the Merkava 3 and 4, plus the latest Japanese tanks, could compensate for kinesthetic disorientation. However, their is bound to be some loss of combat effectiveness without the occasional use of the Mark 1 eyeball, from an elevated position.   Unless the Russians have made a real breakthrough in the field of electronic sensors and optics that is.

 

cheers

Marsh

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I don't know; it seems to me that using rotating optical instruments from the hull would be similar to using the rotating optical instruments from within a turret.  On that, Ogorkiewicz has to say:

 

 

Nevertheless, the use of TRP-2A has been questioned on the grounds that the

users of panoramic periscopes can become disoriented, although no significant
orientation problems appear to have occurred with the 6500 Leopard Is used by
ten different armies.
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I don't know; it seems to me that using rotating optical instruments from the hull would be similar to using the rotating optical instruments from within a turret.  On that, Ogorkiewicz has to say:

 

The Steinheil Lear Siegler TRP-2A panoramic sight with a magnification of between x6 and x20 is one of several optical sights used by Leopard etc and is a fine instrument. However, it is used in conjunction with a number of optical and digital feeds, as well as the naked eye, from a crew position which give a clear view of the tactical situation. Compare this to the research from Robin Fletcher et al, which talks about the disorientating effect of digital feeds, collected from a position not proximal to the individual interpreting those feeds, whilst under the strain of being in combat.

 

 "an even more difficult problem will then arise -- crew vision will still be exercised from the roof of the hull while the mounting will extend to well above that level. This will mean that when moving over rolling country, the unmanned turret or overhead mounting will come into the view of the enemy before our commander is in a position to see him. Our commander will then have lost what is usually described as his "top vision," which can be defined as the ability to see all round from the highest point of his vehicle. This is what he has become accustomed to when putting his head above the roof of a conventional manned turret or when he closes his hatch and uses the array of vision blocks or periscopes surrounding his turret cupola.

Although sighting vision can be obtained remotely from an unmanned turret or an overhead mounting and displayed on screens in front of the crewmen, it will be much more difficult both to obtain "top vision" remotely from the top of these mountings and also to display it at the crew stations down in the hull of the vehicle" 

 

Fletcher, Robin (1995). The Crewing and configuration of the Future Main Battle Tank. Armor. May/June 1995. I have met both Richard Ogorkiewicz and Robin Fletcher many times at military symposiums,  this remains an ongoing problem. 

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Interesting, thank you Marsh.

 

What are these auto-trackers, and how do they prevent the disorientation?

 

The Merkava's auto tracker is fully integrated with it's FCS and thermal sights. Once a target has been designated, it locks on to it irrespective of movement of the Merkava or that of it's target. I believe auto-trackers incorporate some of the technology used in high end cameras. Auto-trackers will automatically predict the position of the target if it is momentarily lost from view or the gunner is distracted, either by the tactical situation or something as simple as sweat blinding his vision.. Richard Ogorkiewicz was given the opportunity to engage moving targets, at distance, whilst on a visit to the IDF. Remember, he not military, not a gunner, no training and had never operated the system before. His Merkava III with the Baz FCS was moving at speed over rough terrain. He repeatedly got accurate hits each time.

 

If you incorporate such technology in tank vectronics, you can alleviate some of the disorientation associated with remote sensors being your primary visual field. You can designate target priority, track them and at least to a degree, electronically compensate for kinesthetic disorientation.

 

Cheers

Marsh

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I wonder if you could have the commander and/or gunner in a tank with an unmanned turret located in a rotating chair so that they were always aligned with the gun, to give them a more visceral indication of where the armament was pointed relative to the hull.  Sort of an inversion of the arrangement in MBT-70.

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Hi Collimatrix,

 

The gunner perhaps, his station being mounted within something akin to a turret basket.  The commander no. I would have thought that with modern hunter/killer FCS, the commander has already designated the target to be destroyed and is hunting for more prey.

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I wonder if you could have the commander and/or gunner in a tank with an unmanned turret located in a rotating chair so that they were always aligned with the gun, to give them a more visceral indication of where the armament was pointed relative to the hull.  Sort of an inversion of the arrangement in MBT-70.

T-74 had gunner connected to gun mount by such chair.

 

B4EPp12.jpg

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r1wVR.png

External fuel tanks.

 

From Paralay forum. Again, 30 mm AC is more like a rumor, rather than anything else.

6e04e0d457fa.jpg

 

 

 

 

700%D0%BC%D0%BC.jpg

 

So rollers are 700 mm, and not 670mm, "straight from T-80"-type of rollers, which mean that size were estimated before with errors.

296743f.jpg

 

 

T-90 vs Abrams, for comparison

90m16tj.gif

 

This is Armata pre-pre "napkin" schematics/3D model. This model was made even before programm actually started, and this vehicle have a lot of commonality with Object 195, at least from outside. 

OmN1J.jpg

It also can give some hints at how turret of the T-14 can look like.

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T-15 TBMP

19Lo54h.jpg

 

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rScYfDM.jpg

 

boJV0CM.jpg

 

wg5gkUX.jpg

 

Kh-ot3Aa75w.jpg

 

Better view on rear part. I still don't know what those devices are on top of the rear part of the roof. Radar? Some kind of optical searching system, similar to planned system on BMPT? IDK, but it looks interesting.

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Has Russia put any effort into electric reactive armor at all? Or are they happy with their other systems?

IDK, but electric reactive armor is as far as rail guns for tanks.

 

25DsapG.jpg

 

I3iifWB.jpg

 

NuhYxJL.jpg

 

PyRUXks.jpg

 

 

From Paralai forum - possbile T-14 turret layout with 30 mm autocannon and 57 mm LShO grenade launcher (57 mm grenade launcher can became main weapon for Epokha unmanned turret).

14304109016361.jpg

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