Tied Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Can Sturgeon fire back with a classic Rifle is fine Tied argument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 If you can accept a rifle with ergonomics that feels like it was made by a seventh grader with a scrap 2x4 and a dull saber saw then sure. Sights are meh. Bolt feels sand papery as metal rasps against metal. No safety. It is very utilitarian. But lags behind Springfield, Enfield, Mauser, Mosin and the much maligned Arisakas IMO along with a load of other guns. The bayonet is LOL fun. Again, we are talking military bolt guns. There isn't THAT much difference. But the recent spell of MAS 36 champ-eening amounts to a lot of gun hipster ism. I have no idea what you're talking about. None of the MAS 36s I've seen are anything like that. For a start, the bolt handle is in an excellent location. You want to compare the ergos of the MAS 36 negatives against the Enfield? Really, a rifle that has almost no curvature or purchase to the wrist of the stock? You're claiming the sights are "meh", except the sights compare favorably in every respect but precision and windage adjustment to the Mauser, Mosin, Arisaka, and early Springfields (1903A1 and before) and Enfields (anything previous to the No. 4). The lack of windage adjustment and safety are those idiosyncrasies I mentioned earlier, as they were explicit French requirements. As for the bolt feeling sandpapery and not slick enough... I dunno, bud. The one you got must just have sucked. I can't say that I recall a MAS 36 that had an unusually rough action. So, you're wrong, the recent spell of MAS 36 "champ-eening" is people recognizing a good design for what it is, your misguided patronization be damned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meplat Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 can it be used as a Javelin? No? didnt think so Sure it can, you ever seen the toadstabber those things had? Sturgeon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 OH NOES IT'S SO UNERGONOMIC AND SLOW: Oh, and Don, you know what else doesn't have a safety? The Winchester 1873. And the 1886. And the 1892. And the 1894. And the Colt Single Action Army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belesarius Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Donward and Sturgeon gun nerd steel cage match has begun. *Grabs popcorn* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 "The rifle is not fine" http://twower.livejournal.com/1761540.html SF guy small rant about Russian Forces (Army, Police, Internal troops, etc) don't have clear rules about weapon mods, and he rant about some situation when it is a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meplat Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I have no idea what you're talking about. None of the MAS 36s I've seen are anything like that. As for the bolt feeling sandpapery and not slick enough... I dunno, bud. The one you got must just have sucked. I can't say that I recall a MAS 36 that had an unusually rough action. Shitty repark/refinish examples. I've seen a few where it's like they did not clean the blasting media off before assembling the piece. Not a design fault, and a reasonable example is pretty damned slick. Sturgeon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meplat Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 "The rifle is not fine" http://twower.livejournal.com/1761540.html SF guy small rant about Russian Forces (Army, Police, Internal troops, etc) don't have clear rules about weapon mods, and he rant about some situation when it is a problem. The "lego" sickness is spreading. Adding complexity rarely improves things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 The "lego" sickness is spreading. Adding complexity rarely improves things. Huh?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Syrian light MLRS Not very "light" MLRS are on the background of last photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Hmmm, those don't look like small arms to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Hmmm, those don't look like small arms to me... But they are! They could be mounted almost anywhere and used in direct fire, instead of 30 mm automatic grenade launchers or RPGs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C. Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Technically RPGs and grenade launchers are light weapons, not small arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted August 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I just listed things like launchers and mortars under "Infantry support weapons" in the original small arms thread on the WoT forums. Basically anything that's man portable and doesn't require a vehicle or static/semi static mount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meplat Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Huh?! Apples and oranges there.. The increase in complexity in the aircraft posted did come at a rather significant cost, both monetary and technological. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Apples and oranges there.. The increase in complexity in the aircraft posted did come at a rather significant cost, both monetary and technological. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C. Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Pinnacle of firearms tech: T___A, Khand-e and Sturgeon 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meplat Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Mechanically, you may find that (what appears to be) snaphaunce lock to be more complex than the AR. Wheel-locks are another example where added complexity was not an improvement and was left by the wayside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meplat Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Pinnacle of firearms tech: Close, if all you want is a single shot and are not worried about precision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meplat Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 And for a bit more fun- How is this an improvement? (other than being a triumph of complexity for complexity's sake..) All fun aside, hanging more junk on a piece, just because, is a symptom of "lego sickness". It's related to the Tacticool curb feelers and mudflaps" affliction one will encounter at many gunshows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C. Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 The G11 looks pretty cool though: Sturgeon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meplat Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 The G11 looks pretty cool though: If by "cool" you mean, "possessing all the aesthetics of a 2X4 coated in plasti-dip and finished with spray-on bed liner", then I guess. Khand-e, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks and Belesarius 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C. Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I plastidipped mine to look cooler: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meplat Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I plastidipped mine to look cooler: Oh, I bet you're gonna get a sternly worded letter from H&K, very soon. Khand-e 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Hey. I'm not trying to bash Sturgeon for digging a French rifle. Far from it. But if we find out that he has been listening to Michael Buble while sipping a Napa Valley red wine and submitting articles to Oprah's magazine, don't say I didn't warn ya! Whatever turns people's bolts. Hell, I'm the guy that unironically tries to make the case that there are niche roles still for lever action rifles in modern shooting. Literally every MAS I've cycled over the years felt that way. Maybe Century Arms sent a shittier batch up to the Big 5 stores 12 years back and the result has been sitting on gun shelves since. Which is always the trouble with comparing these mil surp rifles because so many of them vary in quality. As per the MAS, there is great value to pointing out that it isn't a complete pile and was (and is if you can find the right one) a perfectly adequate gun. But it's not a Springfield, Enfield, Mauser, etc. Now I get the need for people to want to shake up same boring "Best Military Bolt Gun" list by throwing in something made by the Swiss or Norwegians. And with the collectibles market being out of whack, who wants to pay $800 for a Speingfield that has been rotting in some warehouse for 7 decades or a Mauser that Mitchell butchered? You see the same with classic cars now that 99 percent of all GTOs and Corvettes and whatnot are restored, you'll have guys glomming onto the Corvair for instance as being a great classic. Now comparing a MAS to a Corvair is unfair to the former. But it's a fair example of hipster ism that I was referring to where folks take a little known thing (in this case relatively speaking) and pretend that it's better than the societal norm. In the case of Internet gun wankery, the difference with mil surp bolt guns isn't that much even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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